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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

  1. #1341
    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    So you wont do a point by point rebut to my very coherent post on who's responsible for the sub-prime collapse either ?

    I mean its coherent if your reading comprehension level excels that of a fourth grader.

    The two of you are hillarious. Sorry I forced the both of you into a desperate GOOGLE search for counterpoints on my very specific post.


    I guess all you have now is to give each other the proverbial "high five" for being exposed on a public forum.

    " Yay, wev'e been humiliated by a Conservative AGAIN on a political forum....Yay !

    It's too long winded Fenton. Nobody is interested in sifting through all of that. You want to go back to Clinton. Somebody else will bring up Reagan, and on and on back to Washington. Nobody wins and everybody declares Victory, just as you've done.

    The two of you are hillarious. Sorry I forced the both of you into a desperate GOOGLE search for counterpoints on my very specific post.
    Yeah, we're a comedy team. Never argue with a comedian. You'll lose everytime. I can't speak for Whip, but I'm afraid you're deluding yourself if you think you've "forced" me into a "desperate" Google search for counter points to your talking points. We all know how proud you are of them, and I'm sure it took a long time to gather them. The problem is that nobody is interested in entertaining you and your bag of talking points. Nobody wants to wallow in the swamp of minutia that you are offering. As I said, data can and always is manipulated to serve a purpose. You have your talking points, I present mine, Whip presents his, the Owl presents his. It's what we used to call a Circle ....well, you can use your imagination. 200 pages later, nothing is settled. In other words...it's a fools errand, and nobody want's to play just for your own enjoyment. Got it?

    I guess all you have now is to give each other the proverbial "high five" for being exposed on a public forum. " Yay, wev'e been humiliated by a Conservative AGAIN on a political forum....Yay !
    I realize you're attempting to make up for that pounding you just took in our last exchange. Be that as it may, I'm feeling fine. I'm sure Whip is doing well too.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

  2. #1342
    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptinSarcastic View Post
    So when someone says the richest -% pay such and % of all federal income taxes, we should all be aware that they mean ONLY income taxes, and the numbers are padded with corporate tax receipts.

    When did become so stupid as to fall for this stuff? (My answer is the 80's when I fell for supply-side theory, but the actual outcomes and the facts disabused me of this notion)
    I never accepted the idea of supply side economics. I'm more of a demand side guy myself.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

  3. #1343
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The top 1% of earners pay 38% of all federal individual income taxes.
    Right, when someone says that, know that income tax is about half of all federal taxes, and the rest of the taxes are regressive, so fall much heavier on lower incomes, and that precentage is padded with corporate income taxes, which the CBO just adds on as paid income tax, distributed according to income, so the highest incomes get the bulk of the padding.

    Also, the top 1% is made of up a lot (90%) of fairly regular folk making under a $1 million, while the top 1/10 of 1% earn half of the income of the top 1%, 17% of all income, they pay about 11% of the total federal taxes.



    Thanks for being my straight man!

  4. #1344
    Educator Adagio's Avatar
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    The top 1% of earners pay 38% of all federal individual income taxes.
    Good. And they're still rich. I'll bet you that not one of them is worried over how to pay next months rent or mortgage. What we need to examine is the impact of taxes on people at the top 1% and the rest of the people. Anybody at the top 1% isn't getting a weekly paycheck. Their money is coming from stocks and contracted saleries. Romney didn't have a paycheck. It was all in stocks and dividends and capital gains. And he wanted to get rid of Captial Gains tax. Great! That means he'd pay nothing. In effect, he paid less than 13%. Probably nothing since a lot of it was offshore. He could afford to own 4houses and build an elevator for his cars. His sense of desperation is somewhat different from the average person trying to make ends meet every month. He's taken advantage of everything America has to offer, and paid back nothing. He's quick to call for wars, but his own sons aren't going to be involved. They served their country by working on his campaign. Meanwhile my son is a Green Beret with three tours of Iraq and a dead best friend. I have little sympathy for the super rich. They have it just fine.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Conservative's only use data, facts and common sense to cloud the truth of Obama's brilliance and the Nations roaring recovery.

    Notice his ad hominem. I'm trying to help them, educate them.

    Oh well. We knew we had a problem when 60 million of them re-elected the guy that ran on " Usama's Dead, GM's Alive "..

    Conservative's only use data, facts and common sense to cloud the truth of Obama's brilliance and the Nations roaring recovery.
    Would those be the same data, facts and common sense used to predict that landslide victory in the election? Kind of freaked everybody out when Ohio went for Obama didn't it?
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Would those be the same data, facts and common sense used to predict that landslide victory in the election? Kind of freaked everybody out when Ohio went for Obama didn't it?
    Yeah I think this qoute sums up their reaction that night.

    "We...have been cheated out of our victory... Decepiticons...retreat...RETREAT!!!!!!"
    -megatron, transformers generation 1

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    "Business relationships between lawmakers and people with government interests are not illegal or uncommon in Illinois or other states with a part-time Legislature, where lawmakers supplement their state salaries with income from the private sector. Obama spokesman Robert Gibbs, who provided The Times with details of Obama's compensation from EKI, said Obama did nothing wrong acting on behalf of Killerspin. He said the state senator simply wrote a letter backing a worthy project developed by a constituent.

    When Blackwell sought backing for his table tennis tournament in 2002, other politicians, including U.S. Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley, offered support for the event. Initially, the idea of table tennis receiving funds from a state tourism program -- designed to encourage overnight visits to Illinois -- was met with skepticism by one Republican state official. But the funding was granted at the $20,000 level that first year, grew to $200,000 in 2003 and totaled $100,000 in 2004.

    Six months later Blackwell hired Obama to serve as general counsel for his tech company, EKI, which had been launched a few years earlier.

    The monthly retainer paid by EKI was sent to the law firm that Obama was affiliated with at the time, currently known as Miner, Barnhill & Galland, where he worked part time when he wasn't tending to legislative duties. The business arrived at an especially fortuitous time because, as the law firm's senior partner, Judson Miner, put it, "it was a very dry period here," meaning that the ebb and flow of cases left little work for Obama and cash was tight.

    The entire EKI retainer went to Obama, who was considered "of counsel" to the firm, according to details provided to The Times by the Obama campaign and confirmed by Miner. Blackwell said he had no knowledge of Obama's finances and hired Obama solely based on his abilities. "His personal financial situation was not and is not my concern," Blackwell said. "I hired Barack because he is a brilliant person and a lawyer with great insight and judgment."

    Obama's tax returns show that he made no money from his law practice in 2000, the year of his unsuccessful run for a congressional seat. But that changed in 2001, when Obama reported $98,158 income for providing legal services. Of that, $80,000 was from Blackwell's company.

    In 2002, the state senator reported $34,491 from legal services and speeches. Of that, $32,000 came from the EKI legal assignment, which ended in April 2002 by mutual agreement, as Obama ceased the practice of law and looked ahead to the possibility of running for the U.S. Senate. .

    Blackwell said that "Barack worked extensive hours advising the company on compliance and human resource issues," negotiated contracts, reviewed confidentiality agreements and provided reports on topics requested by the company's senior management. Obama was not involved in soliciting city or state contracts for EKI, Blackwell said, and there was an agreement that he would not contact any government agencies.

    It seems you left this stuff out. More selective outrage. Nothing illegal here, and no vast fortune accumulated.
    Il. Politicians in jail....

    "Governor of Illinois Rod Blagojevich (D) was charged with conspiracy to commit mail, wire fraud and solicitation of bribery. He was impeached and removed from office by 59-0 votes of the Illinois Senate.(January 28, 2009)[74] On August 17, 2010, he was convicted on just one of 24 federal charges.[75] In a retrial in 2011, he was found guilty on 17 other counts and sentenced to 14 years in prison.[76][77][78][79]

    Illinois Governor George H. Ryan (R) illegal sale of government licenses and contracts as Secretary of State and as Governor. He was convicted of 18 counts of corruption. (2006) [80]

    State Representative James DeLeo (D) caught in the "Operation Greylord" investigation of corruption in Cook County. He was indicted by a federal grand jury for taking bribes and negotiated guilty plea on a misdemeanor tax offense, and was placed on probation (1992)

    State Representative Joe Kotlarz (D) convicted and sentenced to jail for theft and conspiracy for pocketing in about $200,000 for a sale of state land to a company he once served as legal counsel (1997)

    State Senator Bruce A. Farley (D) sentenced to 18 months in prison for mail fraud (1999)

    State Senator John A. D’Arco Jr. (D) served about 3 years in prison for bribery and extortion (1995)

    Illinois Governor Daniel Walker (D) was convicted of improprieties stemming from loans from a Savings and Loan. He served 18 months in prison. (1987) [188][188] The First American Savings & Loan Association of Oak Brook was declared insolvent with a deficit of $23 million[189]

    Illinois Attorney General William J. Scott served from 1968 until 1982 when he was convicted of tax fraud and sentenced to a year in prison.[190]

    Illinois Governor Otto Kerner, Jr. (D) After serving two terms, Kerner was appointed to the Seventh District Court when he was convicted on 17 counts of bribery, conspiracy, perjury and related charges. (1973) [197] He was sentenced to three years in federal prison. Faced with impeachment, he resigned his position on the federal bench on July 22, 1974.[197][198]

    Illinois State Auditor (comptroller) Orville Hodge (R) embezzled more than $6 million and was indicted for on 54 counts including conspiracy, forgery and embezzling. He was sentenced to 12 to 15 years in prison.[206][207]"

    List of American state and local politicians convicted of crimes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Yeah, real bunch of angles those Illinois politicians.....

    When federal agents arrested Governor Rod Blagojevich two years ago—interrupting what the U.S. attorney Patrick Fitzgerald called “a political corruption crime spree”—Robert Grant, head of the FBI’s Chicago office, offered a succinct analysis of the day’s events. “If [Illinois] isn’t the most corrupt state in the United States,” he said, “it is certainly one hell of a competitor.”

    Given the abundance and variety of political scandals in the state, it’s hard to disagree. Over the past 40 years, about 1,500 people—including 30 Chicago aldermen—have been convicted for bribery, extortion, embezzlement, tax fraud, and other forms of corruption, according to Dick Simpson, head of the political science department at the University of Illinois at Chicago.

    Why Is Illinois So Corrupt? - Chicago magazine - December 2010 - Chicago
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  8. #1348
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Would those be the same data, facts and common sense used to predict that landslide victory in the election? Kind of freaked everybody out when Ohio went for Obama didn't it?
    I think everyone, including some of the MSM forecasters, couldn't quite believe that the people could be so down right stupid as to re elect such an empty suit, anti capitalist, anti traditional American president that had really done little to improve this country, and in fact divided it more, if that was even possible after the stink liberals made the entire Bush terms.....So congrats, we are in decline, and liberals cheer it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  9. #1349
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    No it doesn't.
    Besides being the point, I guess it doesnt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    So what? More nonsense. Fenton does it all the time. It's still the Kitchen Sink no matter when he did it. If you object to what you call the "kitchen sink" then what possible difference can it make when it's done, or who does it? It still amounts to the thing you have an issue with. It's called selective outrage.
    Its called I can post whatever I want. Get used to it. You and Fenton havent even been here long enough to qualify for "all the time". Your outrage seems rather selective at this point, but then you seem to engage in a lot of passive agressive behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    You never did. That's the point. When you went after me on that very thing, and I pointed his post out to you...crickets. You're simply selective in your criticism.
    So, yeah you pointed it out. So I have to as well? No, Im going to do what I want, quit crying about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    That doesn't answer the question. It's really very simple. Either it's possible that you could be wrong, or it isn't. Stop dancing.
    Anyone can be wrong, including me. Some of us accept it more gracefully and can own up to it more readily than you seem to be able to. Again, you seem to be projecting with this one, as you have a lot more invested in being right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    History is a talking point? Really? I've never needed a set of talking points from the DNC to understand history. It's not just slavery that's associated with conservatism, but everything else that came out of it. Jim Crow, Segregation, right up to the Birthers of today. It's embedded into the ideology. Conservatism always strives to maintain institutions, and they can't let go of that one.
    Modern conservatism and the evolution and movements it has had as recently as Goldwater change the makeup, goals and drives of conservatism.



    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Conservative values rarely change. And the last thing they want is to "liberalize" those values. But "values" can't be demonstrated as true. And we aren't talking about "quick changes". It's been a couple hundred years now with regards to race. Maybe it's time to put that aside for good. It neither serves you well, nor the country.
    racecard.jpg



    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Hehe...yes. To evolve is a forward movement. Not backward.

    I've posted this before. Situationally, conservatism is defined as the ideology arising out of a distinct but recurring type of historical situation in which a fundamental challenge is directed at established institutions and in which the supporters of those institutions employ the conservative ideology in their defense. Thus, conservatism is that system of ideas employed to justify any established social order, no matter where or when it exists, against any fundamental challenge to its nature or being, no matter from what quarter. Conservatism in this sense is possible in the United States today only if there is a basic challenge to existing American institutions which impels their defenders to articulate conservative values. The Civil Rights movement was a direct challenge to the existing institutions of the time, and conservatism as an ideology is thus a reaction to a system under challenge, a defense of the status – quo in a period of intense ideological and social conflict. Conservatism is reactionary by its nature. Liberalism is progressive. Conservatism is always a reaction to progressive movement.
    None of which squares with Democrats or Progressives becoming the party of government. Government is an institution, liberalism is using that institution. Keep playing that race card, three plays in one post in three paragraphs! Woot. You miss a very essential point about establishment Democrats and Republicans---they are not wedded to either conservatism or progressivism, they are after power. Both parties are infested with power mongering fools that do not act in anyone's self interest. Which is an effective argument for smaller government, the less power they can wield, the harder it is for them to use it to accumulate more and hang onto what power they have. Thats the smaller government side of conservatism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Oh yeah... pointing out that you're complaining over something within an entire paragraph that YOU decide to quote in its entirety...Is a matter of your whining over one sentence. It's nonsense. If you don't agree with the sentence all you really need to do is highlight it.
    Checking....yeah, Im gonna post whatever I want. You need to get over the control issues you have with how and why other people post. Its not your forum, you are not going to convince people to do it your anal retentive way, so quit weeping about it.

  10. #1350
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    He was a lawyer. And he was hired. And he got paid. And he didn't get paid a fortune. There is no impropiety. But its not surprising that a conservative would look for one. And yes, it is reason. Unless you can demonstrate something wrong in any of that, then it's hogwash. Apparently you can't.
    If you cant find a problem with someone getting a state grant then getting a job from that same company after the fact, then you are unable to see quid pro quo when its laid bare before you. But then Im positive its a liberal thing, by that I mean Obama identifies as a Democrat and liberals are unable to see shady things that they would cause them to instantly call a Republican crooked.

    How about that Tony Rezko, hes just rewarding a fine public servant right? Obama is shady as hell, always has been. Its the Chicago way.

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