Page 131 of 147 FirstFirst ... 3181121129130131132133141 ... LastLast
Results 1,301 to 1,310 of 1467

Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

  1. #1301
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    That's called a Straw Man. The fallacy includes any lame attempt to "prove" an argument by overstating, exaggerating, or over-simplifying the arguments of the opposing side. Such an approach is building a straw man argument. The name comes from the idea of a boxer or fighter who meticulously fashions a false opponent out of straw, like a scarecrow, and then easily knocks it over in the ring before his admiring audience. His "victory" is a hollow mockery, of course, because the straw-stuffed opponent is incapable of fighting back. When a writer makes a cartoon-like caricature of the opposing argument, ignoring the real or subtle points of contention, and then proceeds to knock down each "fake" point one-by-one, he has created a straw man argument. Why is it a Straw Man?? Because NOBODY has ever suggested we must assure "Equal Outcome". Only equal opportunity which of course is a Liberal Idea in the first place. It's wonderful that you agree to what Liberals have argued for forever. But equal outcome is not one of them. It's logically ridiculous to even suggest such a thing considering that no two people have the same talents and should never be expected to produce equal results. So we can dismiss your Straw Man for the BS that it is.

    Next. the Preamble to the Constitution: "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America." What is there in this statement an endorsement of conservatism? The conservative movement didn't even exist until the 1950's. I see nothing. In fact I do see something at the very beginning calling for NOT a perfect union, but rather a MORE PERFECT union. That means we try to improve on what came before without every thinking that we've perfected it. It's a work in PROGRESS. Not something completely finished. The United States is the Great Experiment in liberal Democracy. It's work is never done. And it's problems are met by our ingenuity and originality and always in keeping with the rights of man. That included ridding ourselves of the cancer of slavery, and it's siblings Jim Crow and Segregation. It meant going against the original idea in the constitution of giving women the right to vote. It was not then, nor was the idea ever about creating personal wealth. The risk taking was obvious in the risk of Revolution itself. If we'd lost, men would hang. But wealth was NEVER the idea behind the founding of the country. It was always about freedom and liberty. So don't go hanging your ideology onto the founding. It was never there. It was announced in the Declaration of Independence. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness, and none of that is exlusive to creating wealth. If you want to try to get wealthy, go for it. But if you find success in being a great teacher, or a cop, or a fire fighter, or a soldier, then that's up to you and you aren't violating the purpose of the country to pursue it. You certainly aren't going to get wealthy doing those things.

    So I'm sorry that YOU don't get the concept. But I'm not surprised.
    Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE for the general welfare. You cannot seem to grasp the concept.

    Well then, congratulations, you are getting the country you want, high unemployment, high debt, low economic growth, and dependence on a large central govt.

  2. #1302
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,315

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Promote the general welfare, not PROVIDE for the general welfare. You cannot seem to grasp the concept.

    Well then, congratulations, you are getting the country you want, high unemployment, high debt, low economic growth, and dependence on a large central govt.

    In reading Adagio's responses in here one theme seems crystal clear. That is that he, as other liberals do, believe that they don't need the amendment process to change the constitution, or declare a "right"..... This I believe was always the goal ever since Marbury.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  3. #1303
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,270

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    In reading Adagio's responses in here one theme seems crystal clear. That is that he, as other liberals do, believe that they don't need the amendment process to change the constitution, or declare a "right"..... This I believe was always the goal ever since Marbury.
    Reading Adagio's responses is like reading War and Peace but a lot more boring. Never have I seen someone write so many words that say so little but they do show the brainwashed ideology of a liberal. In spite of history showing the failures of liberalism liberals continue to promote their own arrogance by trying to restore failure though bigger govt. and more spending. Seems that previous liberals never spent enough or spent it wisely which this group is going to change. Interesting that it never happens.

  4. #1304
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,315

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Reading Adagio's responses is like reading War and Peace but a lot more boring. Never have I seen someone write so many words that say so little but they do show the brainwashed ideology of a liberal. In spite of history showing the failures of liberalism liberals continue to promote their own arrogance by trying to restore failure though bigger govt. and more spending. Seems that previous liberals never spent enough or spent it wisely which this group is going to change. Interesting that it never happens.
    It didn't happen in the decline of the Roman empire either, to which I suspect that at the time there were those Roman citizens that saw through the "cakes, and circus's" approach to pacification too, although at that time they were probably fed to the lions. If we are repeating history in that respect, I would watch for zoo's obtaining more large man eating animals.....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #1305
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,313

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Yeah. I'm well aware of it. I have a decent
    vocabulary.



    Well your suspicions would be wrong. Nobody wants to wade through a pile of crap to deal with you. Thats' WHY it's called the Kitchen Sink. You're tossing way too much garbage in your comment. Nobody is going to take the time to wade through all of it to satisfy your needs to seem relevant. Maybe some will, but they mean nothing to me, and if I did take the time you wouldn't believe it anyway. I told you before, I didn't come here to toss out somebody elses ideas. Obviously you have none of your own or you wouldn't need them. You're clearly over your head on this.



    I object to them because I think they're stupid. I have no interest in them. And they dont come from you. You need them because you can't make a case on your own. And...above all, I don't play in your ballpark. You play in mine.



    Well...finally. But tell me, why should I believe you? I'm interested in the truth, not a bunch of things that you can't demonstrate, so can you demonstrate for me right now, how everything you just said is true? I mean, how do I know that you were raised correctly? Do you have some empirical data or evidence to show that? You claim to have above average intelligence. I haven't seen any demonstration of that either. You say this: "I'm not susceptible to empty platitudes and ridiculous political promises," how do I know that's true? You probably voted for Bush. That would disprove that claim. Just because you say it is? Why would I believe you if you can't demonstrate it? You say this: "I value my freedom and liberty," ..well that's really special. So do I so that's a wash. Valuing freedom and liberty is not exclusive to conservatism despite what you may have been told from your talking points.



    That's a logical fallacy that somebody with an above average intelligence should know. You present an either/or situation. Either you accept a concept of community OR you accept individualism, while overlooking that fact that you can have both. It's not an either/or situation. The fact is that you live within a society, unless you decide to live on some island. As such you have responsibilities to that society. That doesn't mean your own idividualism can not be asserted. We all do it every day. So your idea that you can't have the one by accepting the other is false. Pretty easy to understand with an above average intelligence.



    Except when you voted for Bush. Your concern for our troops is very nice. Mine and all my friends were there for them during the Bush years when a totally unqualified man was elected. So you have no monopoly on that.



    So you aren't a Christian then? I thought conservatives embraced Christian teachings. Apparently not.



    Why? What makes that true? Our framers embedded racism into our constitution. You know that right? Are you saying that you embrace that? That this little flaw shouldn't have been corrected? The constitution is a framework. That's why we call these guys the "Framers". They couldnt account for, or think of everything, so they created a great outline for how we would function. But if you think that these forward thinking men didn't grasp that future generations would encounter things that they couldn't imagine, you're naive. If they didn't, they wouldn't be forward thinking would they?



    Can you demonstrate for me that 1) you use the truth, and 2) that your ideology can demonstrate what makes itself true? If you could, I might even join you. The problem you have now is demonstrating that you use truth, and that your ideology demonstrates it? Telling me that doesn't demonstrate it. It's a statement that you can't back up. Your beliefs mean nothing to me. I don't care about them at all. I am interested in the Truth, and you haven't shown me anything here but a series of beliefs, and platitudes. I don't care about your beliefs in private property or the family and what you think about that. Beliefs don't demonstrate truth. What are they based on? You've offered a series of one belief after another, each one based on something without a basis to support it. Again...I don't care about beliefs. I do care about truth. You say that you use truth to shape your ideology. Ok. I get that. But there is a problem with that. You can't possess Truth. You can't hold it. You have no monopoly on it. It's not some object that you can hold in your hand. And another problem is that all ideologies hold their ideas as true again without demonstrating that they are. They are all man made, and man is fallible. Can your ideology be wrong? Is that possible? Or do you expect me to "believe" that it's infallible? Why would I when I know that it's prone to error? You tell me that truth informs your ideology but you can't demonstrate truth for me. So something that you can't demonstrate as true dictates your ideology? So, you have values that you can't demonstrate as true? That's interesting. Can you demonstrate objective truth for me? I don't think you can do that. I for one don’t think values can be demonstrated as true. Is not that hypocritical? If you accept that humans have values, then it’s their values. They are not dependent on demonstration, otherwise, why would we consider them "our" values? Truth is determined by human judgment or truth is determined unequivocally by demonstration. It can't be both. Which is it? Obviously you cannot demonstrate the truth of your values which make up your ideology, so why would I be interested in them or it? In fact, why would you?

    If you claim that your ideology is based on something, then you are admitting that things require a basis. If everything requires a basis, then what is the basis for your basis? It can't be based on itself. No theory or ideology can use itself as it's own justification.

    I'd say your conservatism is flawed. Recognizing the flaws is what brings you closer to the truth. If that's really what matters to you.
    First, your'e a politico outcast ? It seems appropriate. Youv'e wasted a decent amount of bandwith and have said NOTHING.

    You havn't addressed any of my comments. And no your generic gibberish doesn't a rebut make.

    You won't "wade through my crap" because your'e incapable. Iv'e called you out specifically 3 times to address my points specifically and your response is just a bunch of subjective ego-centric dreck.

    Even the other libs aren't comming to your rescue any more.

    And "the basis for my basis ?....LOL.

    Ive told you already, it's truth.

  6. #1306
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,313

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Reading Adagio's responses is like reading War and Peace but a
    lot more boring. Never have I seen someone write so many words that say so little but they do show the brainwashed ideology of a liberal. In spite of history showing the failures of liberalism liberals continue to promote their own arrogance by trying to restore failure though bigger govt. and more spending. Seems that previous liberals never spent enough or spent it wisely which this group is going to change. Interesting that it never happens.
    Addagio's reaction to a debate on specific points and data is apparently to fill a post to it's maximum character count and hope people equate that with a thoughtful and objective response.

    I think the term is called " delusion of eloquence." You know, like when a proffesional athlete winds up in the sportscasters booth he'll buy a pair of small round rimmed eyeglasses, but they're framed with glass, not corrective lenses, study a dictionary a buy a "word of the day" Calender and then go on the air and sound ridiculous.

    Al'a Shannon Sharp.

  7. #1307
    Sage

    Donc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    out yonder
    Last Seen
    12-06-17 @ 09:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    9,426

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    First, your'e a politico outcast ? It seems appropriate. Youv'e wasted a decent amount of bandwith and have said NOTHING.

    You havn't addressed any of my comments. And no your generic gibberish doesn't a rebut make.

    You won't "wade through my crap" because your'e incapable. Iv'e called you out specifically 3 times to address my points specifically and your response is just a bunch of subjective ego-centric dreck.

    Even the other libs aren't comming to your rescue any more.

    And "the basis for my basis ?....LOL.

    Ive told you already, it's truth.
    Why should we come to Adagios rescue?He's doing a fine job on his own of handing up your collective ass's onna platter.Even someone with a room temp IQ should be able to figure that one out.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  8. #1308
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,313

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    Why should we come to Adagios rescue?He's doing a fine job on his own of
    handing up your collective ass's onna platter.Even someone with a room temp IQ should be able to figure that one out.
    LOL !!

    First I'm pretty sure he is a "she". Anyone with a room temperature IQ should be able to figure that one out.

    Note Addagio's efforts to do just about anything and everything to avoid discussing specific data and when challenged simply maxes out the post character count and just repeats the innane and superficial barely coherent rhetoric that was in the last post she was responsible for.

    Look I realize that empty fillibusters and generic plattitudes impress you, but it doesn't equate to someone' ass getting handed to them. It actually means theyv'e admitted their failure at debating on the merits of their argument and have moved on to nonsensical rhetoric.

    Since Addagio's too scared to address my challenge of rebutting my earlier sub-prime post, maybe you would like to take a shot at it.

  9. #1309
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,315

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Whipsnade View Post
    Why should we come to Adagios rescue?He's doing a fine job on his own of handing up your collective ass's onna platter.Even someone with a room temp IQ should be able to figure that one out.
    Ok, so you agree with his talking points....Color me shocked.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  10. #1310
    
    TheGirlNextDoor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    09-24-14 @ 02:31 AM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    20,033
    Blog Entries
    21

    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Moderator's Warning:
    SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]How do I say this nicely? Knock it off. Either discuss the topic of this thread, or continue on in this manner and receive infractions and/or thread bans. Thank you!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •