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Thread: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    blah blah blah, rhetorical egomania at large.
    I know, he's runnin' scared .

    He didn't reply to one of those talking points of mine.

    You think it would be easy too. Theyr'e just "talking points".

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Fleece the banks??? The Banks fleeced all of us.
    This post explains it all doesn't it.

    Never mind that under HUD mandates, the GSEs were put under quota sytem to buy up bad loans from banks who under a Clinton executive order were forces to lower their lending standards.

    Never mind that the GSEs bough trillions in low quality mortgages, under HUD authority, and then mixed them with junk loans and pushed them out into the investment market with a AAA score.

    Nah, it was...the banks.

    Always suspect tthe simplest of answers when debating with Libs.

    Sure 99% of the time they're just uneducated about the subject, but the other 1% just making **** up.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    This post explains it all doesn't it.

    Never mind that under HUD mandates, the GSEs were put under quota sytem to buy up bad loans from banks who under a Clinton executive order were forces to lower their lending standards.

    Never mind that the GSEs bough trillions in low quality mortgages, under HUD authority, and then mixed them with junk loans and pushed them out into the investment market with a AAA score.

    Nah, it was...the banks.
    Yes, it was. You are deliberately ignoring that the vast majority of NPLs were from non-covered banks. While it can be argued that banks not within the framework adopted poor lending standards, that is STILL the banks' fault for doing so. While it can also be argued that the GSEs created incentives by buying up mortgages and securtizing them, many banks themselves securitized bad loans as well. You are ignoring the simple fact that non-covered bank originated loans make up the vast majority of NPLs. Not the covered banks that fell under HUD and the CRA. No one made non-covered banks to make NINJA loans. They freely did it themselves. Sure, the GSEs created a moral hazard, but they never forced non-covered banks to originate the vast majority of NPLs that exist today.

    Sure 99% of the time they're just uneducated about the subject, but the other 1% just making **** up.
    Amusing coming from you.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    [QUOTE=obvious Child;1061496410]And the ANC is hardly Communist or Socialist. QUOTE]

    Have you ever been to South Africa ? I have.

    The ANC is a socialist political party, a terrorist organization during the 70's and 80's.

    I'm kind of lazy today so I apologize for using Wikipedia, Wiki should never really be used as a source but as a starting point for further research.

    >" The African National Congress (ANC) is South Africa's governing political party, supported by its Tripartite Alliance with the Congress of South African Trade Unions (COSATU) and the South African Communist Party (SACP), "< African National Congress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The terrorist war that the ANC waged back in 60's, 70's and 80's was just one battle of the Cold War. We lost that one depending on whos side you were supporting, the western allies or the Soviets. It was the Soviet Union who were supporting the ANC back during the Cold War.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Said the pot to the kettle....

    You still haven't rebutted one of those "talking points" ....it should be easy, theyr'e just "baseless hot air" right ?

    I think your chicken, scared, defeated, ....wait this one word sums all of those adjectives.

    Liberal.

    And I think you're delusional. Look at this statement: "You guys actually argue the debt isn't a big deal and we should be spending more when you have no concept of the damage that's being done to future economies."

    Your concern is over the future. Our concern is over the now, and for a good reason. You can't accurately predict the future. In fact you have a miserable record at doing that very thing. It isn't that the deficit isn't important to address. But it's not the most important issue since the goal of debt reduction is a long range issue. Jobs are a real, right now, immediate condition to address. A person without a job doesn't care about your long range projections of theoretical ideas that can't demonstrate why they're true. He cares about his immediate survival. He doesn't have the luxury of entertaining your theories. He has immediate concerns.

    And this: "You accuse Conservatives and the GOP of racism but ignore the disproportionate high unemployment rate for blacks."

    That's a ridiculous cop out to your own conservative history. The unemployment rate for blacks is nothing new. It didn't start in 08. The very idea that it took a Civil Rights Act of Congress and a Voting Rights Act to insure that conservatives would be blocked from discriminating against blacks tells us what we need to know. If racism wasn't so embedded into conservatism, it wouldn't have taken an Act of Congress to deal with it. And you want to try and use "unemployment" as evidence of racism? It's the very thing that conservatives have practiced forever. So you toss this out as "evidence" of something that Obama is a racist or that Democrats are the racists.

    Your ideology of conservatism is defined as the ideology arising out of a distinct but recurring type of historical situation in which a fundamental challenge is directed at established institutions and in which the supporters of those institutions employ the conservative ideology in their defense. Thus, conservatism is that system of ideas employed to justify any established social order, no matter where or when it exists, against any fundamental challenge to its nature or being, no matter from what quarter. Conservatism in this sense is possible in the United States today only if there is a basic challenge to existing American institutions which impels their defenders to articulate conservative values. The Civil Rights movement was a direct challenge to the existing institutions of the time, and conservatism as an ideology is thus a reaction to a system under challenge, a defense of the status – quo in a period of intense ideological and social conflict. And you fought it all the way. Conservatives resisted this change. They continue to resist the change that is taking place in the country. White supremacy as an institution is renounced, discredited, and dismantled, and that is a major blow to an existing order, and conservatism is always a reaction to a challenge to an existing order. These are people that desperately need somebody to look down to in order to validate their own self-worth. “Sure, life is tough. But at least I’m White.” They can no longer rely on a policy that used to be institutionally enforceable. When that is removed by law, hostility is the result; hostility for those that have been emancipated by law and elevated to equal status, and hostility for the law itself including those that proposed it and passed it.

    Thus, hatred for African-Americans and for the Liberal’s and liberal policies that endorse their equal status is fully embraced by the conservative.


    And this: "Your States are bankrupt," My state is not bankrupt. It's actually one of the top ten states in the country in it's management. In fact my states support your states. We send more money to the Federal government than we receive. With you it's taking more than you put in. States like New York and Jersey actually support Mississippi and Alabama and never think twice about helping when disaster hits, unlike the red states.

    And this: "your politicians are pathological"

    That's garbage. Your politicians refuse to accept science. They deny climate change, they deny evolution which they think comes straight from the pits of Hell. They think that rape can't cause a pregnancy. They think the earth is 6,000 years old for Gods sake. They claim that congress is made up of 78 to 81 members of the Communist party. They claim that Obamacare is Armegeddon. They filibuster their own bills. McConnel filibustered his own proposal. Your politicians conspired to destroy Obama's presidency on the very day of his innauguration in 09, and thats not some theory. It's documented with exactly who they were and they don't deny it. You claim the president was born in ****ing Kenya despite all the evidence to render this into the trash can.

    The conservative mind embraces a narrow point of view. It doesn’t like being challenged. It resists new information. A liberal mind by definition is open to change, but change always threatens the existing order, so the liberal is not to be trusted. He is feared, and hated because he challenges the existing order.


    And this: "and your cities are corrupted and filled with black on black violence, but for years you ignore it waiting for the 20 innocent white children to be gunned down by a lunatic to push your insipid and worthless gun control agenda."

    You cry over the gun violence in the cities, but you resist any efforts to control that violence with common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans want. Even after 20 babies are gunned down, you hold your guns in higher regard than the lives of 6 year olds. You have a right to a gun. But they have a right to go to school and live to be seven. And that right carries more weight than your infatuation with being a cowboy.

    As for this: "I think your chicken, scared, defeated, ....wait this one word sums all of those adjectives.
    Liberal." Get ready for a surprise. Nobody cares what you think. We can all see what you think, and it's boring and baseless ad hominem attacks. That's not a recipe for winning anything. It's a prescription for losing.

    You attack. Look at every comment you make. It's an attack. You offer nothing as to what makes your ideas viable, or imaginitive. You have no solutions to any problem. You're an empty suit. If you want a debate then make YOUR case. Attacking the other guy doesn't tell anybody about what you'd do. And that's because what you offer doesn't work. We've seen it. Who should we all believe? You or our lyin eyes? What do you base your ideas on?? Supprt them, or you have nothing to offer. Are you suggesting that you're ideas are infallibly correct? How can they be? They all come from a fallible source. And that's something you have yet to come to grips with. If they are wrong, can you accept that possibility and change? I can. Can you say as much or is your idealogy more important to you than the truth that maybe theres'a a fly in the ointment?
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    YOUR taxes have been cut. These are now loopholes. The top 1% had their taxes raised. I doubt if that had any effect on you since your taxes have been kept at the same rates as the Bush Cuts.
    Actually SS taxes went up on everyone. The tax cuts enacted under Bush...ready to expire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    Yeah. so what? When you cut spending you are taking money out of the economy. When you do that you lose jobs. We want it put into the economy. We have a disagreement on what grows the economy. And we won that argument. Get over it.
    Really. So where does the money come from? Does it come from taxpayers? Who can stimulate the economy better with it in THEIR pocket? Winning an election doesnt win an argument. So did republicans win the argument in 2010?

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    That's right, but he can't very well represent YOUR side of that equation and ignore the side that elected him based on what he proposed. And he's not going to, because elections do have consequences. So there will always be a divided electorate. His first responsibility is to those that elected him to do what he said he'd do. He's not going to govern based on your conservative ideas. Your conservative ideas
    His first responsibility is to govern capably and not play politics first and govern second. Ask anyone but you die hard liberals which way hes governing and its politician first, country second.

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    There is no lie in the post. And you aren't having your taxes raised. And you are objecting to the closing of loopholes. And just bolding the text and underlining what YOU view as lies or crap doesn't in fact make it either. Opinion and Fact. Remember??
    Democrats object to even slowing the rate of spending. They sure arent making any cuts. I find it hilarious that Romney ran on closing loopholes and now democrats are suddenly embracing that as a way of raising revenue. I thought you werent going for any GOP ideas? As for taxes, the AHCA is a big tax, the attempts to raise gas taxes, changing SS taxes, etc etc.

    Do you even know why you're a conservative??
    You are the alternative? Id rather be able to think for myself.

  7. #1217
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    And I think you're delusional. Look at this statement: "You guys actually argue the debt isn't a big deal and we should be spending more when you have no concept of the damage that's being done to future economies."

    Your concern is over the future. Our concern is over the now, and for a good reason. You can't accurately predict the future. In fact you have a miserable record at doing that very thing. It isn't that the deficit isn't important to address. But it's not the most important issue since the goal of debt reduction is a long range issue. Jobs are a real, right now, immediate condition to address. A person without a job doesn't care about your long range projections of theoretical ideas that can't demonstrate why they're true. He cares about his immediate survival. He doesn't have the luxury of entertaining your theories. He has immediate concerns.

    And this: "You accuse Conservatives and the GOP of racism but ignore the disproportionate high unemployment rate for blacks."

    That's a ridiculous cop out to your own conservative history. The unemployment rate for blacks is nothing new. It didn't start in 08. The very idea that it took a Civil Rights Act of Congress and a Voting Rights Act to insure that conservatives would be blocked from discriminating against blacks tells us what we need to know. If racism wasn't so embedded into conservatism, it wouldn't have taken an Act of Congress to deal with it. And you want to try and use "unemployment" as evidence of racism? It's the very thing that conservatives have practiced forever. So you toss this out as "evidence" of something that Obama is a racist or that Democrats are the racists.

    Your ideology of conservatism is defined as the ideology arising out of a distinct but recurring type of historical situation in which a fundamental challenge is directed at established institutions and in which the supporters of those institutions employ the conservative ideology in their defense. Thus, conservatism is that system of ideas employed to justify any established social order, no matter where or when it exists, against any fundamental challenge to its nature or being, no matter from what quarter. Conservatism in this sense is possible in the United States today only if there is a basic challenge to existing American institutions which impels their defenders to articulate conservative values. The Civil Rights movement was a direct challenge to the existing institutions of the time, and conservatism as an ideology is thus a reaction to a system under challenge, a defense of the status – quo in a period of intense ideological and social conflict. And you fought it all the way. Conservatives resisted this change. They continue to resist the change that is taking place in the country. White supremacy as an institution is renounced, discredited, and dismantled, and that is a major blow to an existing order, and conservatism is always a reaction to a challenge to an existing order. These are people that desperately need somebody to look down to in order to validate their own self-worth. “Sure, life is tough. But at least I’m White.” They can no longer rely on a policy that used to be institutionally enforceable. When that is removed by law, hostility is the result; hostility for those that have been emancipated by law and elevated to equal status, and hostility for the law itself including those that proposed it and passed it.

    Thus, hatred for African-Americans and for the Liberal’s and liberal policies that endorse their equal status is fully embraced by the conservative.


    And this: "Your States are bankrupt," My state is not bankrupt. It's actually one of the top ten states in the country in it's management. In fact my states support your states. We send more money to the Federal government than we receive. With you it's taking more than you put in. States like New York and Jersey actually support Mississippi and Alabama and never think twice about helping when disaster hits, unlike the red states.

    And this: "your politicians are pathological"

    That's garbage. Your politicians refuse to accept science. They deny climate change, they deny evolution which they think comes straight from the pits of Hell. They think that rape can't cause a pregnancy. They think the earth is 6,000 years old for Gods sake. They claim that congress is made up of 78 to 81 members of the Communist party. They claim that Obamacare is Armegeddon. They filibuster their own bills. McConnel filibustered his own proposal. Your politicians conspired to destroy Obama's presidency on the very day of his innauguration in 09, and thats not some theory. It's documented with exactly who they were and they don't deny it. You claim the president was born in ****ing Kenya despite all the evidence to render this into the trash can.

    The conservative mind embraces a narrow point of view. It doesn’t like being challenged. It resists new information. A liberal mind by definition is open to change, but change always threatens the existing order, so the liberal is not to be trusted. He is feared, and hated because he challenges the existing order.


    And this: "and your cities are corrupted and filled with black on black violence, but for years you ignore it waiting for the 20 innocent white children to be gunned down by a lunatic to push your insipid and worthless gun control agenda."

    You cry over the gun violence in the cities, but you resist any efforts to control that violence with common sense gun regulations that a majority of Americans want. Even after 20 babies are gunned down, you hold your guns in higher regard than the lives of 6 year olds. You have a right to a gun. But they have a right to go to school and live to be seven. And that right carries more weight than your infatuation with being a cowboy.

    As for this: "I think your chicken, scared, defeated, ....wait this one word sums all of those adjectives.
    Liberal." Get ready for a surprise. Nobody cares what you think. We can all see what you think, and it's boring and baseless ad hominem attacks. That's not a recipe for winning anything. It's a prescription for losing.

    You attack. Look at every comment you make. It's an attack. You offer nothing as to what makes your ideas viable, or imaginitive. You have no solutions to any problem. You're an empty suit. If you want a debate then make YOUR case. Attacking the other guy doesn't tell anybody about what you'd do. And that's because what you offer doesn't work. We've seen it. Who should we all believe? You or our lyin eyes? What do you base your ideas on?? Supprt them, or you have nothing to offer. Are you suggesting that you're ideas are infallibly correct? How can they be? They all come from a fallible source. And that's something you have yet to come to grips with. If they are wrong, can you accept that possibility and change? I can. Can you say as much or is your idealogy more important to you than the truth that maybe theres'a a fly in the ointment?
    I might read this if it were a Xyphlin post. But you?

    This is a tactic known as the kitchen sink. Toss up so much crap that its difficult to refute point by point because there are endless rhetorical talking points, evasions and outright lies. If you cant say it in 100 words, dont expect it to get read---its a rant past that. Underlined paragraph in particular qualifies, one solid paragraph of text full of evasions and ranting ideology. God, I wish we could thumbs down posts.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I know, he's runnin' scared .

    He didn't reply to one of those talking points of mine.

    You think it would be easy too. Theyr'e just "talking points".

    That's the whole problem. They're talking points. You have none of your own. If this is simply a vehicle for you to post talking points that were handed to you, you've exposed yourself as a mindless fool. You're entire argument is based on the authority of whoever issued the talking points. But what is their authority based on? Is this an exercise in dragging out talking points? I have access to tons of talking points but that's not what this is about. At least for me. I can't speak for you. Somebody is already doing that. They tell you what to think. Congratulations. You can't think for yourself, and we all know that.

    Look through this thread and aside from your insults, you have nothing to say. I don't care about your talking points. I'm more interested in why you'd want to be a conservative which is a question you won't touch. And I know why. The argument in this country is over philosophy vs ideology, and philosophy won. Maybe it's time you reexamine the ideology. It could have a fatal flaw in it. In fact, I know it does, but I suspect you haven't found it yet.
    Extremism: A threat at home, a threat abroad.

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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by Adagio View Post
    That's the whole problem. They're talking points. You have none of your own. If this is simply a vehicle for you to post talking points that were handed to you, you've exposed yourself as a mindless fool. You're entire argument is based on the authority of whoever issued the talking points. But what is their authority based on? Is this an exercise in dragging out talking points? I have access to tons of talking points but that's not what this is about. At least for me. I can't speak for you. Somebody is already doing that. They tell you what to think. Congratulations. You can't think for yourself, and we all know that.

    Look through this thread and aside from your insults, you have nothing to say. I don't care about your talking points. I'm more interested in why you'd want to be a conservative which is a question you won't touch. And I know why. The argument in this country is over philosophy vs ideology, and philosophy won. Maybe it's time you reexamine the ideology. It could have a fatal flaw in it. In fact, I know it does, but I suspect you haven't found it yet.
    The top 1% of earners already pay 38% of all federal income taxes.
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    re: SOTU Address:[W: 378; 1310; 1451]

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    I bet thats about what CRA compliance would cost. Just sayin.
    Your wrong.Just sayin.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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