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Pope resigns

Jon Stewart knows why the Pope quit.

I'd really like to post a link, but I don't want to push my luck.

Not hard to find online.
 
Where in the Bible is slavery condemned?

The Bible has an incredible amount of contradictions. You know that. So, where would African Americans or white abolitionists and Quakers find solace or a passion in Christianity? Equality before the eyes of God, the story of Moses, the stories of the meek and the downtrodden, and so on and so forth. This isn't a coincidence that you get two enormously contradicting views of Christianity by the Christian abolitionists and the plantation class.

It's really easy to find that great nugget about the plantation class using Christianity to bolster their structures of power, but it's also just as easy to forget that there were numerous groups confronting this issue from an anti-slavery and abolitionist perspective in Christian churches.
 
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The Bible has an incredible amount of contradictions.



Ain't that the truth.

My point is that even though a lot of Christians opposed slavery, The Bible did not condemn it.
 
If you say so.

The rolling eyes indicate sarcasm FYI.

Although some may use the excuse of religion/God, those are NOT the real goals of the selfish. People who commit atrocities against other people or use their religion as an excuse to mistreat people are not truly religious. They are just using it as a scapegoat. There is almost ALWAYS an ulterior motive which has absolutely nothing with religion or God.

Take the witch trials for example. Those men KNEW the people they were sentencing to death as being witches were not truly witches. Good Lord! :doh These atrocities were committed over property rights and greed. Do a little more research into the REAL causes of things instead of just skimming the surface.
 
It's not just what Christians have done, it's what they haven't done.

Where were the Christians in Europe when 6 million Jews and millions of 'others' were being massacred?

Do people go to hell for what they don't do?

Any ideas?

For ONE thing, most people didn't know what was happening in Germany. Even most of the German people didn't know the extent of what was happening.
 
It's not religion that is "evil". It is the people who use religion to accomplish their less than scrupulous goals. This is kind of like what is happening a lot of Islamic communities in our modern times. We have intelligent educated imams and others who will use religion to brainwash and convince the less intelligent and/or educated people that they are righteous in what they are doing.

Does anyone really think the true goal of those who kill or commit other atrocities in the name of religion is "spreading the word"? I think that is a bit naive . . . no offense.
 
It's not just what Christians have done, it's what they haven't done.

Where were the Christians in Europe when 6 million Jews and millions of 'others' were being massacred?

Do people go to hell for what they don't do?

Any ideas?

Here is one place the Christians went for the sake of those Jews and others. These are Americans,b ut they are in Luxembourg still.


View attachment 67142595

And yes. My belief is all people deserve hell for what they have done, and for what they have failed to do. No amount of doing good can cover for the bad that is at my core. This is part of the reason why I am a Christian.
 
Here is one place the Christians went for the sake of those Jews and others. These are Americans,b ut they are in Luxembourg still.


View attachment 67142595

And yes. My belief is all people deserve hell for what they have done, and for what they have failed to do. No amount of doing good can cover for the bad that is at my core. This is part of the reason why I am a Christian.


Late as usual. When did America enter WW1?
 
Take the witch trials for example. Those men KNEW the people they were sentencing to death as being witches were not truly witches. Good Lord! :doh These atrocities were committed over property rights and greed. Do a little more research into the REAL causes of things instead of just skimming the surface.

I wouldn't go that far. Indeed, much of the time, you could see what rivalries, property disputes, political disputes, or social anxiety were propelling events forward. However, that does not negate the probability that in many or most of these cases, the reality of witchcraft existed. Views of the Church changed from the first many centuries to downplay the existence of witchcraft, to embracing it by the 14th and 15th centuries, and continually evolving its definition. From up on high to the lower rungs of the Church, for different circumstances it was possible for people to believe in witchcraft's existence in a given area. Now, in some cases it was more of the outsider priest that saw heresy and witchcraft in comparison with the local priest (sometimes the latter would get more anxious about the former because of it). Many episodes in Germany after the Protestantism took hold, clearly demonstrate the belief held by not only the victim (or their families), but also the court systems, was that witchcraft did in fact exist (in this one particular case I am thinking of, they just had to go through a more scientific process to prove it). Someone of a rival family, however often we are aware that they are trying to diminish our influence in this township, we do not eliminate the possibility that they will use (or have used) witchcraft against us. When someone has a personal grudge against me (and I against them), I could wonder if they may have made a pact with Satan and went to the Sabbat. This also does not begin to address folklore magic and witchcraft beliefs that were deeply ingrained in a culture.

If you want a more contemporary example, see South Africa's witchcraft beliefs. Social, political, or property disputes certainly are what we see at the helm of each person's problem. However, in their world, it quite literally is a series of good magic, bad magic, and anti-magic practices.

Once you discover that witchcraft did not actually exist, it is altogether too easy to then chalk it all up to the very observable social and political disputes that are influencing matters, when belief does actually matter.
 
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Ain't that the truth.

My point is that even though a lot of Christians opposed slavery, The Bible did not condemn it.

But that's not how they saw it. If you were to take a number of teachings seriously, it would undermine the slavery institution. Furthermore, it would be useful to notice that there seems to be a distinction between indentured servitude and life-slavery (in addition to the treatment) in the Bible, which would be of consequence for societies with slaves versus slave societies.

The Bible provides no great absolute comfort to the removal of slavery, but it does undermine it at the same time as support it.
 
You should tell that to the majority of Catholics...who are liberal and have been historically liberal the past 50 years.

You should also tell it to the majority of American Catholics who pretty much ignore anything that comes out of the Vatican.
 
Only those who practiced it.

Nowhere in the Bible does it condemn slavery or slave owners, it tells us who you can own, how you can treat them and how you can trick a servant into being your slave forever. Nowhere does it say "don't own other people."
 
You should also tell it to the majority of American Catholics who pretty much ignore anything that comes out of the Vatican.
I don't have much relation to the Catholics, anymore at least, so I don't think that would help much.
 
Nowhere in the Bible does it condemn slavery or slave owners, it tells us who you can own, how you can treat them and how you can trick a servant into being your slave forever. Nowhere does it say "don't own other people."
And what happens to the slave owners in the bible?

I'm not siding one way or another, but saying that the bible condones slavery is a stretch I can't let pass.
 
The Bible provides no great absolute comfort to the removal of slavery, but it does undermine it at the same time as support it.



I'm sure that helped the slaves a lot.
 
I'm sure that helped the slaves a lot.

It did, but only to an extent. It was part (another being rhetoric of the revolutionary era) of what helped free blacks and some number of slaves create rebellion or establish alliances with white abolitionists. Now, if you want to be infantile about it (which you seem keen on doing), we have bigger intellectual problems.
 
I wouldn't go that far. Indeed, much of the time, you could see what rivalries, property disputes, political disputes, or social anxiety were propelling events forward. However, that does not negate the probability that in many or most of these cases, the reality of witchcraft existed. Views of the Church changed from the first many centuries to downplay the existence of witchcraft, to embracing it by the 14th and 15th centuries, and continually evolving its definition. From up on high to the lower rungs of the Church, for different circumstances it was possible for people to believe in witchcraft's existence in a given area. Now, in some cases it was more of the outsider priest that saw heresy and witchcraft in comparison with the local priest (sometimes the latter would get more anxious about the former because of it). Many episodes in Germany after the Protestantism took hold, clearly demonstrate the belief held by not only the victim (or their families), but also the court systems, was that witchcraft did in fact exist (in this one particular case I am thinking of, they just had to go through a more scientific process to prove it). Someone of a rival family, however often we are aware that they are trying to diminish our influence in this township, we do not eliminate the possibility that they will use (or have used) witchcraft against us. When someone has a personal grudge against me (and I against them), I could wonder if they may have made a pact with Satan and went to the Sabbat. This also does not begin to address folklore magic and witchcraft beliefs that were deeply ingrained in a culture.

If you want a more contemporary example, see South Africa's witchcraft beliefs. Social, political, or property disputes certainly are what we see at the helm of each person's problem. However, in their world, it quite literally is a series of good magic, bad magic, and anti-magic practices.

Once you discover that witchcraft did not actually exist, it is altogether too easy to then chalk it all up to the very observable social and political disputes that are influencing matters, when belief does actually matter.

That's very interesting. I'm sure there WAS some kind of superstition involved as well, among other motives.

I was more referring to the witchcraft trials that occurred in the United States though. I feel certain that there were a lot of ulterior motives, besides that they simply believed this one or that one was a witch.

I've read a little bit about this in the past. I started looking at this article, but haven't had time to finish reading it yet. Here, I'll link you to it so you can check it out if you're interested. Some really fascinating stuff. :)

http://cti.itc.virginia.edu/~bcr/relg415_02/teachingswt_ch02.pdf
 
Boyer and Nissembaum's argument is great at understanding a socio-economic and preacher alliance look at the Salem trials, but it's only one portion of what scholars have argued about it. Again, Salem Possessed was a great read and just about one of the most consequential works in decades, but its approach was thoroughly different from many other works on witchcraft. It tries to be more scientific, but that brings in additional complications. :)

Americans are messed up in that they get very little in the way of a witchcraft problem.
 
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I'm seeing a theme develop here.

Catholics vote liberal because they are ignorant and/or duped.
Blacks vote liberal because they are ignorant and/or duped.

It's not GOP policies. It's that people are just too ignorant to be enlightened about the GOP policies. Which is why the GOP is now saying that their policies are right and that its just their "messaging" that is wrong. As Colbert showed last night in epic fashion.

I'm sure we'll hear the same thing about Latino's in a few years after the GOP conveniently forgets their whole war on them in the last several elections.

I don't support the GOP. I was only making a point about abortion. You brought in the GOP.
 
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