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Pope resigns

Cephus said:
Why do you think that they haven't all been dealt with and completely discredited?
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Because you can't find any source that thoroughly understands the arguments and knocks them down.
 
Cephus said:
That's like asking at what point does believing in Santa Claus become pathetic and there probably isn't a single answer to that, but I think we all recognize that an adult who believes in Santa Claus has something wrong with them. People need to reach an age of reason, where they are prepared, intellectually and emotionally, to deal with the world on it's own terms and to be expected to be concerned with whether something is actually real instead of believing just what makes them emotionally feel good. It is an important part of the maturation process that childish things be left behind.

There is no evidence for God. There is no more evidence for God than there is for Santa Claus or unicorns or leprechauns. However, where we'd consider anyone who believed in the latter three to be off their rocker, society gives special consideration to the first because it's a security blanket for adults. It just shouldn't be, it stops people from truly being mature and rational. It's a crutch for people who are too pathetic to just deal with reality.
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Cephus, there exists a rational basis for believing in God. The problem is that once it opened God up to human understanding, one's claims for understanding of God could come into conflict with another man's, opening up the possibility of no faith. It's as simple as that.

Now, instead of running around saying that theism is stupid, you should probably focus on the topic itself. When atheism is brought up elsewhere, I don't presume to call non-belief stupid. I take it seriously.
 
phattonez said:
Because you can't find any source that thoroughly understands the arguments and knocks them down.
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I can't? Or you simply refuse to acknowledge that they've been wholly discredited?
 
Fiddytree said:
Cephus, there exists a rational basis for believing in God.
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What is it?

The problem is that once it opened God up to human understanding, one's claims for understanding of God could come into conflict with another man's, opening up the possibility of no faith. It's as simple as that.
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Which really suggests that there is no single understanding of God, pointing to the more rational possibility that it's just a bunch of people believing what they want to believe, not actually believing in a real thing.

Now, instead of running around saying that theism is stupid, you should probably focus on the topic itself. When atheism is brought up elsewhere, I don't presume to call non-belief stupid. I take it seriously.
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You'd have to actually demonstrate it. Believing in something for which there is no objective evidence is stupid, sorry.
 
Cephus said:
I can't? Or you simply refuse to acknowledge that they've been wholly discredited?
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The burden of proof is on the one making the claim.
 
Cephus said:
Saying the guy that thinks those arguments are valid...
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I've offered arguments. All you've said is that they've been disproven, yet can point to nothing that shows that.
 
Cephus said:
What is it?



Which really suggests that there is no single understanding of God, pointing to the more rational possibility that it's just a bunch of people believing what they want to believe, not actually believing in a real thing.



You'd have to actually demonstrate it. Believing in something for which there is no objective evidence is stupid, sorry.
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I'd suggest picking up James Turner's Without God, Without Creed. Now, yes, there is no single understanding of God, but they actually believe it is real. Dismissing that as false is simply silly. It is very much real for them, regardless of what you or I believe.

Theists shouldn't have to bend to your demands for proof on a very subjective and personal thing at your every whim. I wouldn't ask you to test your non-belief.
 
phattonez said:
I've offered arguments. All you've said is that they've been disproven, yet can point to nothing that shows that.
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You've offered claims and those claims have been soundly refuted many, many times over. All you're doing is throwing out a claim, you're doing nothing to demonstrate that these claims are remotely valid. I could take them all out in my sleep.
 
Fiddytree said:
I'd suggest picking up James Turner's Without God, Without Creed. Now, yes, there is no single understanding of God, but they actually believe it is real. Dismissing that as false is simply silly. It is very much real for them, regardless of what you or I believe.

Theists shouldn't have to bend to your demands for proof on a very subjective and personal thing at your every whim. I wouldn't ask you to test your non-belief.
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It doesn't matter what they believe, it only matters if it's actually so. People can believe in unicorns, they can have faith that unicorns are real, they can be strongly comforted by their belief in unicorns, but if unicorns don't actually exist, then all the people who believe they do ARE WRONG!

The same goes for God.
 
Cephus said:
It doesn't matter what they believe, it only matters if it's actually so. People can believe in unicorns, they can have faith that unicorns are real, they can be strongly comforted by their belief in unicorns, but if unicorns don't actually exist, then all the people who believe they do ARE WRONG!

The same goes for God.
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Your grandstanding does not negate anything. All you have done is present the atheist point of view, and that has no meaning here.

So here's what you got.

People who believe in unicorns, their leader is retiring, a new leader is coming. The Society for people who believe in unicorns is one of the largest institutions in the world, and influences civilizations throughout the world.

Do you see how utterly irrelevant your posts are to these basic facts?
 
Cephus said:
You've offered claims and those claims have been soundly refuted many, many times over. All you're doing is throwing out a claim, you're doing nothing to demonstrate that these claims are remotely valid. I could take them all out in my sleep.
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You're still all talk, no substance.
 
Cephus said:
It doesn't matter what they believe, it only matters if it's actually so. People can believe in unicorns, they can have faith that unicorns are real, they can be strongly comforted by their belief in unicorns, but if unicorns don't actually exist, then all the people who believe they do ARE WRONG!

The same goes for God.
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There are no arguments to believe in unicorns. There are arguments to believe in God. Quit debating a straw man. It's one reason why atheists have a reputation of being aggressive and cocky.
 
Fiddytree said:
People who believe in unicorns, their leader is retiring, a new leader is coming. The Society for people who believe in unicorns is one of the largest institutions in the world, and influences civilizations throughout the world.
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Not to mention wealthiest, and it all comes from charity.
 
shrubnose said:
If today's out of touch, running out of time GOP does not change a lot and soon it will be reduced to a minor, regional, party in the not-distant future.

Don't think so?

Wait , do nothing, and see.
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Hmmmm....Let me guess, you (like most liberals) believe that in order to win elections that the GOP must become more like liberals. Well, the GOP did that for the past decade plus, how'd that work out?

No, the GOP will be just fine, what they need to do is get back to basics, and STOP trying to get liberals to like them. They need to see that it is liberal sabotage that has brought them to this point.
 
shrubnose said:
If today's out of touch, running out of time GOP does not change a lot and soon it will be reduced to a minor, regional, party in the not-distant future.

Don't think so?

Wait , do nothing, and see.
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Looking at the last twenty President's parties, I'm not so sure about that. The power seems to fluctuate between parties fairly regularly.


William McKinleyRepublican1897-1901
Theodore RooseveltRepublican1901-1909
William Howard TaftRepublican1909-1913
Woodrow WilsonDemocratic1913-1921
Warren Gamaliel HardingRepublican1921-1923
Calvin CoolidgeRepublican1923-1929
Herbert Clark HooverRepublican1929-1933
Franklin Delano RooseveltDemocratic1933-1945
Harry S. TrumanDemocratic1945-1953
Dwight David EisenhowerRepublican1953-1961
John Fitzgerald KennedyDemocratic1961-1963
Lyndon Baines JohnsonDemocratic1963-1969
Richard Milhous NixonRepublican1969-1974
Gerald Rudolph FordRepublican1974-1977
James Earl Carter, Jr.Democratic1977-1981
Ronald Wilson ReaganRepublican1981-1989
George Herbert Walker BushRepublican1989-1993
William Jefferson ClintonDemocratic1993-2001
George Walker BushRepublican2001-2009
Barack ObamaDemocratic2009-
 
Fiddytree said:
Your grandstanding does not negate anything. All you have done is present the atheist point of view, and that has no meaning here.
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No more than Christian beliefs do. The only thing that matters is reality.

People who believe in unicorns, their leader is retiring, a new leader is coming. The Society for people who believe in unicorns is one of the largest institutions in the world, and influences civilizations throughout the world.

Do you see how utterly irrelevant your posts are to these basic facts?
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Yes, damn me for actually caring about whether or not unicorns actually exist. :roll:
 
Cephus said:
No more than Christian beliefs do. The only thing that matters is reality.

Yes, damn me for actually caring about whether or not unicorns actually exist. :roll:
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Hey look who's back. Have you found any arguments against the Quinque Viae yet?
 
phattonez said:
Hey look who's back. Have you found any arguments against the Quinque Viae yet?
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Start a thread in an appropriate place and I'd be happy to shred them for you.
 
Cephus said:
Start a thread in an appropriate place and I'd be happy to shred them for you.
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You post about God not existing in every thread, and you don't want to defend it when prompted?
 
Cephus said:
No more than Christian beliefs do. The only thing that matters is reality.
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You're right, the only thing that matters is reality. That reality is that it is an established theological, social, and political institution. Your opinion about the legitimacy of their belief in God is utterly irrelevant.



Yes, damn me for actually caring about whether or not unicorns actually exist. :roll:
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If you want to put it that way, sure. I don't believe in 3/4's of what the Catholic institution believe in, and find most of it unconvincing. That is irrelevant. I grew up instead of acting like a child, or in our case, a really old toddler.
 
Cephus said:
No more than Christian beliefs do. The only thing that matters is reality.
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Could you list some specific reasons why the existence of a God is not reality? So far you seem to be saying you're right because you are. It would be helpful to know where you're coming from.
 
Fiddytree said:
You're right, the only thing that matters is reality. That reality is that it is an established theological, social, and political institution. Your opinion about the legitimacy of their belief in God is utterly irrelevant.
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But it is not a FACTUAL institution. Santa Claus is an established social institution too, it just isn't real.

If you want to put it that way, sure. I don't believe in 3/4's of what the Catholic institution believe in, and find most of it unconvincing. That is irrelevant. I grew up instead of acting like a child, or in our case, a really old toddler.
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I don't really care what the Catholics believe in or what the Jews believe in or what the Muslims believe in or what the Hindus believe in, I care about what is factually true in the real world. That's where these discussions ultimately fall apart because, at the end of the day, you're more concerned with feeling good than you are in being correct. I'm exactly the opposite.
 
Pilot said:
Could you list some specific reasons why the existence of a God is not reality? So far you seem to be saying you're right because you are. It would be helpful to know where you're coming from.
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It is unsupported by the evidence, hence it ought not be believed, any more than unicorns and leprechauns and magical elves ought to be believed. No one should believe anything without having objective evidence that it's actually so.
 
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