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Pope resigns

Joe Steel said:
Many American Catholics will demand Ronald Reagan be made Pope. They will insist the fact that he is dead and wasn't a Catholic shouldn't be a reason to deny the world his greatness.
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Being dead didn't stop Jesus Christ!
 
phattonez said:
One of his main focuses has been the Mass and restoring sacredness and reverence to it. The Mass has been banalized for decades after Vatican II, and what is more representative of Catholics than the Mass? Through the Mass, we can restore our faith. Lex orandi, lex credendi.
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A true, and devoit catholic believes that a miracle happens every communion, in which the wine truly becomes the blood of Christ, upon consumption by the faithful, and that the bread truly becomes the flesh of Christ, when consumed by the faithful.

Ergo, all true, devoted Catholics....




Are cannibals.





I kid. Sort of.


I think the largest issue facing the Catholic "faith" today is that the majority of Catholics know less about their religion than they know about Dancing with the Stars.
 
KevinKohler said:
A true, and devoit catholic believes that a miracle happens every communion, in which the wine truly becomes the blood of Christ, upon consumption by the faithful, and that the bread truly becomes the flesh of Christ, when consumed by the faithful.

Ergo, all true, devoted Catholics....




Are cannibals.





I kid. Sort of.


I think the largest issue facing the Catholic "faith" today is that the majority of Catholics know less about their religion than they know about Dancing with the Stars.
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Yes, which I would argue is associated with a deterioration of the sacred at the Mass.
 
X Factor said:
Given that Pope John Paul looked like he could barely hold his head up toward the end of his life,
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Kinda hard to hold your head up when you got angry, sex-abused souls staring at you in disgust :rolleyes:
 
phattonez said:
Yes, which I would argue is associated with a deterioration of the sacred at the Mass.
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Listen, fact of the matter is, Catholics are "less catholic" because....Catholicism is failing to change with the times. That's reality. Leviticus? Gonna have to change, I'm sorry to say. Or be interpreted differently than it has been for the past thousand years or so. Job? Not jiving too well with today's parents. Noah's Ark? Peta has issues with any god that would kill so many animals, regardless of the issue. The old testament is just that...old and out dated. But it's the word of god, and therefor, infalible, which is the stance the Catholic church has taken, more so than the other judeo christian denominations. It's why Martin Luther left in the first place.
 
celticwar17 said:
Why would they do that? Most Catholics are liberal. A even greater majority of them would be liberal if not for the abortion issue.
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If you believe Roman Catholicism has anything at all to do with liberalism, you don't know the definition of liberalism.
 
KevinKohler said:
Listen, fact of the matter is, Catholics are "less catholic" because....Catholicism is failing to change with the times. That's reality. Leviticus? Gonna have to change, I'm sorry to say. Or be interpreted differently than it has been for the past thousand years or so. Job? Not jiving too well with today's parents. Noah's Ark? Peta has issues with any god that would kill so many animals, regardless of the issue. The old testament is just that...old and out dated. But it's the word of god, and therefor, infalible, which is the stance the Catholic church has taken, more so than the other judeo christian denominations. It's why Martin Luther left in the first place.
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There was no crisis in the Church in the thoroughly modern 1940s or 1950s. Things didn't start deteriorating until the liturgy deteriorated.

If you want the Church to imitate the world, then what's the point? The world is always going to be better at that than the Church. The Church has to offer something different if it is going to stay relevant. Remember, the New Testament constantly reminds us that Christians will be hated by the world.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Unlike in North America, the majority of Catholics in Central and Southern America are more trusting of the leadership - so far.
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Yeah, I can see how that works out with those Cartels that give heavily to the Church.
 
Monserrat said:
The majority of Catholics in America voted for President Obama, we're fairly liberal in the US.
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Obama is not a liberal. A casual look at his record shows he merely masqueraded as a liberal to get elected, then pissed all over the Constitution once in office.

In the last two Presidential elections, O was nothing more than the lesser of two evils.
 
phattonez;1061454140]There was no crisis in the Church in the thoroughly modern 1940s or 1950s. Things didn't start deteriorating until the liturgy deteriorated.
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Hah. The 40's and 50's gave rise to evangelicals. Not Catholics, to be sure. NON traditional. And that's the direction christians are going now...non traditional. Catholics can embrace that, or deny it, and watch their numbers dwindle.
If you want the Church to imitate the world, then what's the point? The world is always going to be better at that than the Church. The Church has to offer something different if it is going to stay relevant. Remember, the New Testament constantly reminds us that Christians will be hated by the world.
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The new testament does this only because Christianity is spread and propogated by martyrdom. Persecution. And yet, in it's history, has catholicism been the the persecuted....or has it been, more often, the persecutor?

CHRISTIANITY will survive the world's changes....Catholicism will not.
 
phattonez said:
There was no crisis in the Church in the thoroughly modern 1940s or 1950s. Things didn't start deteriorating until the liturgy deteriorated.

If you want the Church to imitate the world, then what's the point? The world is always going to be better at that than the Church. The Church has to offer something different if it is going to stay relevant. Remember, the New Testament constantly reminds us that Christians will be hated by the world.
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All the Church needs to do is speak the truth in love.
 
KevinKohler said:
Hah. The 40's and 50's gave rise to evangelicals. Not Catholics, to be sure. NON traditional. And that's the direction christians are going now...non traditional. Catholics can embrace that, or deny it, and watch their numbers dwindle.
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The Church has tried being liberal in its Mass for the past 50 years. The result? A huge crisis. Btw, Evangelicals started in the 1800s with the Methodists. And how have the Anglicans been doing with their liberal push? Most are becoming Catholic.

The new testament does this only because Christianity is spread and propogated by martyrdom. Persecution. And yet, in it's history, has catholicism been the the persecuted....or has it been, more often, the persecutor?
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You mean when the Church built the hospitals and the universities in the Middle Ages? That "evil" Church?

CHRISTIANITY will survive the world's changes....Catholicism will not.
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Where the faith is steeped in tradition, it grows tremendously. Where it has been abandoned, a crisis has ensued.
 
phattonez said:
The Church has tried being liberal in its Mass for the past 50 years. The result? A huge crisis. Btw, Evangelicals started in the 1800s with the Methodists. And how have the Anglicans been doing with their liberal push? Most are becoming Catholic.



You mean when the Church built the hospitals and the universities in the Middle Ages? That "evil" Church?



Where the faith is steeped in tradition, it grows tremendously. Where it has been abandoned, a crisis has ensued.
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Well, the Church has been remarkable about picking which parts of the modern world and understanding it is willing to embrace, in addition to its strategy of spreading the faith. They can be quite realpolitik when they need to be.
 
phattonez said:
The Church has tried being liberal in its Mass for the past 50 years. The result? A huge crisis. Btw, Evangelicals started in the 1800s with the Methodists. And how have the Anglicans been doing with their liberal push? Most are becoming Catholic.



You mean when the Church built the hospitals and the universities in the Middle Ages? That "evil" Church?



Where the faith is steeped in tradition, it grows tremendously. Where it has been abandoned, a crisis has ensued.
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Only if by crisis, you mean, renaisance, then, sure. The numbers tell all.
 
phattonez said:
The truth is not popular with the children of the world.
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That's okay. Jesus said to suffer unto Him the little children. ;)

The ugliness of this thread is fairly predictable, but I would encourage you to resist temptation here. The gambit always is to put people of faith on the defensive.

I keep thinking as I read along in this thread how Jesus responded at His trial: "You say that I am."
 
KevinKohler said:
Only if by crisis, you mean, renaisance, then, sure. The numbers tell all.
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What renaissance? The Church has only seen a huge fall in attendance and vocations when it banalized the Mass.
 
Anyway, I have no desire to pursue this, as it's pointless. I have my beliefs, you have yours.

I doubt we'll ever meet in the middle, or see eye to eye. 99% certain of it, in fact. It would take completely blind, oblivious, Helen Keller style faith, to think otherwise.

I simply BELIEVE that, due to it's rigid, fanatical adherence to tradition, Catholicism will fall to the wayside, possibly in my grand children's lifetimes, should I have grand children.


To be fair, I also believe that Islam is following the same path.
 
phattonez said:
What renaissance? The Church has only seen a huge fall in attendance and vocations when it banalized the Mass.
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No, it saw a loss of attendance when it performed various cover ups for child molestation.
 
nota bene said:
That's okay. Jesus said to suffer unto Him the little children. ;)

The ugliness of this thread is fairly predictable, but I would encourage you to resist temptation here. The gambit always is to put people of faith on the defensive.

I keep thinking as I read along in this thread how Jesus responded at His trial: "You say that I am."
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Jesus also said that it matters not where one worships, or the manner in which one worships, so long as they do so in good faith. The very antithesis of organized, rigid, traditional catholicism.
 
KevinKohler said:
Anyway, I have no desire to pursue this, as it's pointless. I have my beliefs, you have yours.

I doubt we'll ever meet in the middle, or see eye to eye. 99% certain of it, in fact. It would take completely blind, oblivious, Helen Keller style faith, to think otherwise.

I simply BELIEVE that, due to it's rigid, fanatical adherence to tradition, Catholicism will fall to the wayside, possibly in my grand children's lifetimes, should I have grand children.


To be fair, I also believe that Islam is following the same path.
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It's doing remarkably well for a faith. I really have a hard time believing it will perish any time soon. I'm expecting many of the American variants of Christianity to expire long before Catholicism.
 
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