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Thread: Pope resigns

  1. #481
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    And what happens to the slave owners in the bible?

    I'm not siding one way or another, but saying that the bible condones slavery is a stretch I can't let pass.
    It's not a stretch, it's in bloody black and white. You're just embarrassed because you believe in a book that advocates slavery so you're desperately trying to twist it around to rationalize your beliefs.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    When you say "American Catholics," are you referring to the American Catholic group. If so, you'd be correct that a majority of them ignore the Vatican. If, however, you are referring to practicing Catholics, your claim here is wishful hyperbole.
    I'm talking about practicing Catholics in America who largely ignore Papal decrees on abortion and birth control and many other things because they're absurd.

    Just like Catholicism.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    I agree.
    I don't know Tim Minchin, but he sure hit the nail on the head. I wouldn't use the same words, but I certainly agree with his message.
    Anyone who is upset by what he said should stop the things that he sang about from happening.
    When protecting a religion from criticism is more important to its leaders than protecting children from sex abuse that religion has a serious problem.
    "As one of the most powerful and influential forces in the world, religion should never be off-limits to satirists." ~ Tim Minchin
    He's my kind of kinky, check out 'if you really loved me' (my favorite of his), or masterpieces like 'Woody Allen Jesus' and '10 foot cock and a few hundred virgins'.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Don't they sell brushes in England?
    He's Australian.
    مثلي مثلك

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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I don't support the GOP. I was only making a point about abortion. You brought in the GOP.
    You brought in the GOP talking points.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Pope resigns

    You guys jack this thread up to the point that you're talking about abortion? It's about a resigning Pope.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's not a stretch, it's in bloody black and white. You're just embarrassed because you believe in a book that advocates slavery so you're desperately trying to twist it around to rationalize your beliefs.
    I'm not a Christian. Unlike most christians, and especially Catholics, I've actually read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible. Which is a large reason why I'm not Christian.

    No where in the bible is slavory condoned, or given a pass. The folks that practice slavory tend to end up dead, or in dire straits. A rich man has as much chance to get into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle. Well, slave owners, as a general rule, were all rich men. The most famous slave owner in the bible had his first born son murdered by God.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I'm not a Christian. Unlike most christians, and especially Catholics, I've actually read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible. Which is a large reason why I'm not Christian.

    No where in the bible is slavory condoned, or given a pass. The folks that practice slavory tend to end up dead, or in dire straits. A rich man has as much chance to get into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle. Well, slave owners, as a general rule, were all rich men. The most famous slave owner in the bible had his first born son murdered by God.
    Though I agree with your point you cheapen it by insulting Christians. There is no need to do that. There are plenty of Christians ho have "read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible".

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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Cephus View Post
    It's not a stretch, it's in bloody black and white. You're just embarrassed because you believe in a book that advocates slavery so you're desperately trying to twist it around to rationalize your beliefs.
    It doesn't advocate slavery. Believe it or not, during biblical times, slavery was a part of normal everyday life.

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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I'm not a Christian. Unlike most christians, and especially Catholics, I've actually read, studied, understood, then applied reasoning, to the bible. Which is a large reason why I'm not Christian.

    No where in the bible is slavory condoned, or given a pass. The folks that practice slavory tend to end up dead, or in dire straits. A rich man has as much chance to get into heaven as a camel passing through the eye of a needle. Well, slave owners, as a general rule, were all rich men. The most famous slave owner in the bible had his first born son murdered by God.
    However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

    If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

    When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

    When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

    Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

    The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

    There are other passages I could quote as well. Nowhere in the Bible is there a single condemnation of slavery, in fact it speaks over and over about how slaves are to obey their masters, even if they are being abused or treated badly. There is no excuse, according to 1 Timothy, for anyone to disobey anything that their Christian master tells them to do, how can you say that's not giving it a pass? It even teaches that Christians are fine and dandy owning other people!

    It amazes me how hard people work to get around the facts in black and white. The Bible supports slavery. Just read it! It never condemns slavery, not once. Even the most revered writers of the Bible never condemn slavery, in fact, they directly encourage it and demand slaves to return to their masters.

    Facts are facts.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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  10. #490
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It doesn't advocate slavery. Believe it or not, during biblical times, slavery was a part of normal everyday life.
    And the Bible, like everything else, is a product of it's cultural time. It is no better than any other book, religion or social movement.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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