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Thread: Pope resigns

  1. #281
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    There's no verbiage that's going to satisfy those predisposed to hate the church. No amount of mea culpa, no dollar figure will be enough. Good thing that God is the one from whom forgiveness flows.
    How exactly is condemning child rapists being "predisposed" to hate the church? If it wasn't complicit in the mass rape of children, and instead actually worked to prevent it, investigated its priests, and turned them over for prosecution, I wouldn't hate it. Well, okay I would, but that's for other reasons... because of its actions. You're try to pretend that people are just rabidly hateful as matter of existence. If the Catholic Church would stop doing evil things, no one would be angry with them. Its stances against birth control, especially in AIDS-stricken Africa, against Abortion, against sexual and gender equality... those are not excuses by which someone who has already decided can use to attack the church, those are reasons to make a decision about the church's morality.

    Stop trying to make excuses for, and defending, child rapists. Stop being an apologist. Demand that your church take action to punish their rapist employees, and stop protecting real evil. Then people won't hate it so much.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  2. #282
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    I'm guessing you tried to receive the Eucharist.
    My wife is Baptist and everyone at the church knows it, never kicked out of our Catholic church. Then again, she was respectful enough not to attempt to receive communion.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  3. #283
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    My wife is Baptist and everyone at the church knows it, never kicked out of our Catholic church. Then again, she was respectful enough not to attempt to receive communion.
    That's the difference. You will never be bothered for attending Mass. In fact exactly the opposite, you will be welcomed. Just don't dare try to receive that which you don't believe to be the actual Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ if you don't believe it to be so.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  4. #284
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    Except for his views on papal authority and the Eucharist. Other than those two apparently teeny tiny issues, he was a conservative.
    It's interesting to me how easily the peoples of Northern Europe were able to assimilate the "morality" of Judea. But, truely baffling, is the then endemic hatred of the Jews. Sort of like a wigger who hated black people........................

  5. #285
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    How exactly is condemning child rapists being "predisposed" to hate the church? If it wasn't complicit in the mass rape of children, and instead actually worked to prevent it, investigated its priests, and turned them over for prosecution, I wouldn't hate it. Well, okay I would, but that's for other reasons... because of its actions. You're try to pretend that people are just rabidly hateful as matter of existence. If the Catholic Church would stop doing evil things, no one would be angry with them. Its stances against birth control, especially in AIDS-stricken Africa, against Abortion, against sexual and gender equality... those are not excuses by which someone who has already decided can use to attack the church, those are reasons to make a decision about the church's morality.

    Stop trying to make excuses for, and defending, child rapists. Stop being an apologist. Demand that your church take action to punish their rapist employees, and stop protecting real evil. Then people won't hate it so much.
    You're ignorant of the Church if you think nothing has changed. Massive reforms have been instituted to prevent this from ever happening again.

    As for AIDS and Africa, it would seem the best solution is monogamy rather than indiscriminate sex. Condoms aren't foolproof.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  6. #286
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    I'm a religious individual but it's one thing to not believe in God and it's another to attack those who do. The atheist movement is obsessed with attacking believers or those of faith...I have my opinions, views and faith but I really don't enjoy playing dictator as those of "anti-faith" and I suppose those of faith do - and certainly that is what the whole debate is about when it comes to religion (well anything in general for that matter).


    If so many Christians in the USA weren't trying to shove their religion and its wacky ideas down everyone's throats we would have fewer problems.

    Think about it.

  7. #287
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonzai View Post
    It's interesting to me how easily the peoples of Northern Europe were able to assimilate the "morality" of Judea. But, truely baffling, is the then endemic hatred of the Jews. Sort of like a wigger who hated black people........................
    The Jews persecuted the early Christian Church. Why are you surprised by a backlash?

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  8. #288
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    If so many Christians in the USA weren't trying to shove their religion and its wacky ideas down everyone's throats we would have fewer problems.

    Think about it.
    Replace Christians with atheists and religion with secular humanism and you'd have a point. The disintegration of society starts with the attack on the traditional family and monogamous relationships.

    Who shall ascend the hill of the Lord? And who shall stand in his holy place? He who has clean hands and a pure heart, who does not lift up his soul to what is false, and does not swear deceitfully. Psalm 24
    "True law is right reason in agreement with nature . . . Whoever is disobedient is fleeing from himself and denying his human nature [and] will suffer the worst penalties . . ." - Cicero

  9. #289
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    How exactly is condemning child rapists being "predisposed" to hate the church?
    Give me a break, Paschendale.

    I wouldn't hate it. Well, okay I would
    ...

    You're try to pretend that people are just rabidly hateful as matter of existence. If the Catholic Church would stop doing evil things, no one would be angry with them.
    Then you go on to define evil as...

    Its stances against birth control, especially in AIDS-stricken Africa, against Abortion, against sexual and gender equality... those are not excuses by which someone who has already decided can use to attack the church, those are reasons to make a decision about the church's morality.
    ...which means you are predisposed to hate the church because it doesn't meet your definition of good. Your definition of morality is the new one on the block, brother, not the church's.

    Stop trying to make excuses for, and defending, child rapists.
    I make no excuses for inexcusable behavior, and I never have.

    Stop being an apologist.
    Never.

    Demand that your church take action to punish their rapist employees, and stop protecting real evil. Then people won't hate it so much.
    I have never suggested that anyone NOT be punished for the evil they have done. And I don't give a damn who hates the church, that's their problem. All I want to do is set the record straight.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  10. #290
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    Re: Pope resigns

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    You're ignorant of the Church if you think nothing has changed. Massive reforms have been instituted to prevent this from ever happening again.
    Not nearly enough.

    As for AIDS and Africa, it would seem the best solution is monogamy rather than indiscriminate sex. Condoms aren't foolproof.
    Church doctrine prohibits married couples from using condoms. How much more monogamous do you expect people to be?

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    The disintegration of society starts with the attack on the traditional family and monogamous relationships.
    Which no one is attacking. Except for the whole "a man is king in his castle" part, where a woman has to be subservient to her husband and is essentially a second class citizen. That part we're attacking like crazy. But my desire to have whatever sex I want with whomever I want for whatever reasons I want has nothing to do with your choice to do the same, or not, as you desire. My life has no effect whatsoever on your family or relationships.

    And what would such an attack even look like? No one is trying to make it harder for monogamous, heterosexual couples to marry and have children. I think you are confusing attacks for not getting preferential treatment.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    ...
    These dots stand for your selective edits, I see. Can't honestly address the idea that the church ought to be judged on its actions?

    Then you go on to define evil as...which means you are predisposed to hate the church because it doesn't meet your definition of good. Your definition of morality is the new one on the block, brother, not the church's.
    Harm = evil. Stopping or preventing harm = good. That's nature's definition, and it's a whole lot older than any human institutions.

    I make no excuses for inexcusable behavior, and I never have. I have never suggested that anyone NOT be punished for the evil they have done. And I don't give a damn who hates the church, that's their problem. All I want to do is set the record straight.
    Stop worrying about the record and FIX the problem. No one wants mea culpas, you're right about that. What people want is to be sure that their local priests aren't going to rape their children, and that if they do, that the church won't help cover it up.
    Last edited by Paschendale; 02-12-13 at 01:56 AM.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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