Thread: Dr. Benjamin Carson's speech at prayer breakfast

Originally Posted by j-mac

When one calls something what it is, that is not explained away by labeling it "something I don't like" (ie; your diversion to use black self employment as an answer to the rise in black unemployment under Obama) you have to at some point think about what you are typing in here, and say to yourself, 'man, this is transparently wrong.'



You've laid out support to a question that wasn't asked....I asked you to address Dr. Carson's comments on the black unemployment under Obama, which has risen. Instead you tried to immediately come back with how black entrepreneurship was up, and that may well be. Good for those few that have started their own businesses...But, that doesn't address the question, it is ..... Ahem.... an excuse NOT to address the question by diverting the original question.



No one insulted you Joe. Sorry you don't like the truth. Calling something what it is, is not an insult to you, it is what it is....If you don't like being called out for diverting the question, then just answer it.

I wish you did call things what thy were. That would b a welcome change. But the thing is every time you get stuck, you blame the person you're discussing the issue with.

I did address Dr. Caron's comment directly. I showed there was at least two or three other explanations with as much or more evidence to support those claims than Dr. Carson had. This is how discussion works. You should not expect everyone to just go "wow, he's right." Try to address the rebuttal in front of you.

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

I wish you did call things what thy were. That would b a welcome change. But the thing is every time you get stuck, you blame the person you're discussing the issue with.

I did address Dr. Caron's comment directly. I showed there was at least two or three other explanations with as much or more evidence to support those claims than Dr. Carson had. This is how discussion works. You should not expect everyone to just go "wow, he's right." Try to address the rebuttal in front of you.

When you provide an actual rebuttal, and not a diversion, using something that is at best a minor part of the overall picture, then I'll be happy to address it...To this point, you have not done that.

Originally Posted by j-mac

When you provide an actual rebuttal, and not a diversion, using something that is at best a minor part of the overall picture, then I'll be happy to address it...To this point, you have not done that.

That's just it j, it's not a diversion. It's a direct rebuttal. There are more logical and reasonable explanations. Providing those goes directly to his claim. You are wildly off to call it a diversion.

Originally Posted by Grant

Suddenly?

This guy never had the qualifications to be President. No foreign experience, business experience, nada,

And it's not only the American people will pay for their foolishness. The world is becoming a far more dangerous place as well. That's nothing personal against the man the way you suggest.. That's just the way it is.

I never said Dr. Carson was qualified to be President, I wondered why he's the new object of TP man-crushes.

I fail to see how the American people will pay for letting him be a Doctor. By all accounts, he's pretty qualified to be one and does a good job at it.

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

That's just it j, it's not a diversion. It's a direct rebuttal. There are more logical and reasonable explanations. Providing those goes directly to his claim. You are wildly off to call it a diversion.

I already gave props to those that were lucky enough to start a business in these times. Maybe you missed it. But even if you take those people in the black community, the black unemployment rate remains above 14% which is a rise from when Obama took office, and the youth black unemployment remains above 40%....

With that in mind, you didn't do squat to Dr. Carson's argument. Obama has ignored his own community.

Originally Posted by j-mac

I already gave props to those that were lucky enough to start a business in these times. Maybe you missed it. But even if you take those people in the black community, the black unemployment rate remains above 14% which is a rise from when Obama took office, and the youth black unemployment remains above 40%....

With that in mind, you didn't do squat to Dr. Carson's argument. Obama has ignored his own community.

Even your response here you picked only one f three things I noted.

1. Many started business showing business, small business, was not failing due to Obama's policy.

2. That an overwhelming number on minorities held government jobs. This means that when you cut government, those people become unemployed. If we blame Obama for that, we are saying we don't want him to shrink government in those areas.

3. The trend isn't new. Minorities have faired poorly in all economies here, especially during hard times.

I also noted that we saw this fall with tax cuts and all he supported in place, which does weaken his claim that they would fix the problem. And I do note That he has to show exactly what causes related to what effect. Overall your sources are too vague and make general assertions that require a rather blind acceptance of the warrant behind them. All of this directly answers Dr. Carson.

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

Even your response here you picked only one f three things I noted.

1. Many started business showing business, small business, was not failing due to Obama's policy.

Oh my goodness....Get back to me in three years and let me know of the small businesses that started as a response to NO JOBS in the black community, are still in business then...In times when there are no jobs in a community, a spike in business start ups is usually the norm, the question is will they last.

2. That an overwhelming number on minorities held government jobs. This means that when you cut government, those people become unemployed. If we blame Obama for that, we are saying we don't want him to shrink government in those areas.

In a prosperous economy, those positions could be absorbed into the private sector. So yes, it is a failure to argue that the reason to keep a bloated government, is to employ people. It is a false choice.

3. The trend isn't new. Minorities have faired poorly in all economies here, especially during hard times.

Wow, that is a remarkably racist view you got there Joe...Blacks have always had high unemployment so they always will....That's your assertion? Do you always stereo type?

I also noted that we saw this fall with tax cuts and all he supported in place, which does weaken his claim that they would fix the problem. And I do note That he has to show exactly what causes related to what effect. Overall your sources are too vague and make general assertions that require a rather blind acceptance of the warrant behind them. All of this directly answers Dr. Carson.

The so called "tax cuts" were not cuts at all. They were adjustments to SS withholding which is now ended. That whole line was a lie.

Originally Posted by j-mac

Oh my goodness....Get back to me in three years and let me know of the small businesses that started as a response to NO JOBS in the black community, are still in business then...In times when there are no jobs in a community, a spike in business start ups is usually the norm, the question is will they last.

The claims was covering now. Predictions are in another category. As of now, as demonstrated, his claim is false. Moving from working for someone else to being in business for your self does not equal losing that job.

In a prosperous economy, those positions could be absorbed into the private sector. So yes, it is a failure to argue that the reason to keep a bloated government, is to employ people. It is a false choice.

Not as likely as you think. But, no one said the economy was prosperous, or that any president control prosperity. I argue quite the opposite if you've been paying attention. So, no, it is not a false choice, especially in the short term, and when recovering from a recession.

Wow, that is a remarkably racist view you got there Joe...Blacks have always had high unemployment so they always will....That's your assertion? Do you always stereo type?

Nothing of the kind. it is what it is. I challenge you to to show that minorities have not lagged behind in this area. Also I never siad this was entirely their fault. Don't read too much in.

The so called "tax cuts" were not cuts at all. They were adjustments to SS withholding which is now ended. That whole line was a lie.

No, the Bush tax cuts were tax cuts. Sorry, but you can't try and ignore what was.

Originally Posted by Boo Radley

No, the Bush tax cuts were tax cuts. Sorry, but you can't try and ignore what was.

I'd say after 10 plus years, they are not 'tax cuts' anymore, but rather tax rates.

As for the rest of the post, it is too misguided, and too much for me to cover right now, and likely that anything said in opposition to your view of this will be ignored anyway....So, once again, another day, another waste of time...Gotta go....

Originally Posted by j-mac

I'd say after 10 plus years, they are not 'tax cuts' anymore, but rather tax rates.

As for the rest of the post, it is too misguided, and too much for me to cover right now, and likely that anything said in opposition to your view of this will be ignored anyway....So, once again, another day, another waste of time...Gotta go....

So, you propose perpetual tax cuts until there are no taxes? Or do you realize that there was a tax cut and we still went into a recession?

As for too much to cover, I can wait.