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U.S. Postal Service to end Saturday mail delivery in cost-cutting move

Ikari said:
It's a necessary service which must be guaranteed. It's not a business and it doesn't need to profit. The other forms of public utility we have are usually just forms of local monopoly granted by the government to the best donor. A true public utility need not profit as it is subsidized through taxes and thus its future is guaranteed.
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I disagree.

From Wikipedia:

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure). Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to state-wide government monopolies. (Common arguments in favor of regulation include the desire to control market power, facilitate competition, promote investment or system expansion, or stabilize markets. In general, though, regulation occurs when the government believes that the operator, left to his own devices, would behave in a way that is contrary to the community's best interests.)

If your description is correct, why should we be charged anything to use it? The USPS only receives tax dollars as subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters. OTher than that they are on their own. The fact it that they do need to profit, that is the reason they are making cuts.
 
Pilot said:
I disagree.

From Wikipedia:

A public utility (usually just utility) is an organization that maintains the infrastructure for a public service (often also providing a service using that infrastructure). Public utilities are subject to forms of public control and regulation ranging from local community-based groups to state-wide government monopolies. (Common arguments in favor of regulation include the desire to control market power, facilitate competition, promote investment or system expansion, or stabilize markets. In general, though, regulation occurs when the government believes that the operator, left to his own devices, would behave in a way that is contrary to the community's best interests.)

If your description is correct, why should we be charged anything to use it? The USPS only receives tax dollars as subsidies for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters. OTher than that they are on their own. The fact it that they do need to profit, that is the reason they are making cuts.
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I'd prefer it funded solely off of taxes. The only reason the "need" to profit is that people are screaming that they must. You could always just use tax dollars. Does our government "need" to profit? We run quite the deficit. That's why government is not business.
 
Redress said:
Ummm...UPS is in competition with USPS.
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The USPS has an exclusive legal right to deliver first-class and third-class mail, and it is illegal in the U.S. for anyone, other than the employees and agents of the USPS, to deliver mailpieces to letter boxes marked "U.S. Mail.

UPS and FedEx currently have to drop off many letters and packages at the USPS, so a mailman can make the delivery.
 
Pilot said:
The USPS has an exclusive legal right to deliver first-class and third-class mail, and it is illegal in the U.S. for anyone, other than the employees and agents of the USPS, to deliver mailpieces to letter boxes marked "U.S. Mail.

UPS and FedEx currently have to drop off many letters and packages at the USPS, so a mailman can make the delivery.
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Correct, but the UPS can deliver any package, which includes letters. Their only limitation is on the use of the mailbox to my understanding. They do, directly, compete with USPS.
 
Redress said:
Yes it is. It is not doing it profitably, but it is doing it. Note that just ending Saturday delivery is going to save it 2 billion, moving it much closer to the break even point. What do you think UPS would have to charge for similar service to first class mail?
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We don't know that, do we? What we do know is that the post office is operating at a significant deficit and still doesn't raise its rates enough to compensate. I get **** in my mailbox every day that doesn't have to pay 46-cents. It goes directly into the recycling pile. What a waste. Of energy. Of resources. Of money.
 
It is the postal employee pension plan that Congress forces the USPS to continue to fund. I was told anecdotally that some new carriers just got a huge paycut--like several dollars an hour pay cut. I have not heard if those with seniority got any cuts though.
 
MaggieD said:
We don't know that, do we? What we do know is that the post office is operating at a significant deficit and still doesn't raise its rates enough to compensate. I get **** in my mailbox every day that doesn't have to pay 46-cents. It goes directly into the recycling pile. What a waste. Of energy. Of resources. Of money.
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Yeah, but that crap mail you get pays a different rate that makes up (a little) for the low personal mail rate. Even so, the PS is the dinosaur thrashing at the end of it's life. A whole lot of us still need it, but less and less every year.
 
Ideally we should have 18 wheelers delivering single pieces of mail to individuals or at least make everyone drive a few miles to a central location where they would pick their stuff up, big oil could use the extra business.
 
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clownboy said:
Yeah, but that crap mail you get pays a different rate that makes up (a little) for the low personal mail rate. Even so, the PS is the dinosaur thrashing at the end of it's life. A whole lot of us still need it, but less and less every year.
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The crap mail pays less, not more.
 
Redress said:
Yes it is. It is not doing it profitably, but it is doing it. Note that just ending Saturday delivery is going to save it 2 billion, moving it much closer to the break even point. What do you think UPS would have to charge for similar service to first class mail?
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Just sent some documents last week via UPS, $10 and some change
 
clownboy said:
Yeah, but that crap mail you get pays a different rate that makes up (a little) for the low personal mail rate. Even so, the PS is the dinosaur thrashing at the end of it's life. A whole lot of us still need it, but less and less every year.
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Less and less for sure. But whatever it evolves into, there will still need to be a guaranteed system in place.
 
MaggieD said:
The crap mail pays less, not more.
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Not in effect. They pay less per piece but there is a minimum number of pieces to get the rate. Ends up being a money maker for the PS, where the residential mail is a money pit.
 
1) The postal service was forced to prefund pension obligations 75 years in advance. That is absolute nonsense and no other entity in existence is required to meet that ridiculous requirement.
2) The postal service is still used for official communication. When the court sends you a summons, it needs to get to its intended recipient. That requires some kind of infrastructure that is guaranteed to be available to every citizen. Currently, neither the internet nor private package delivery services can meet that standard and thus the UPS is needed until that changes.
 
rathi said:
1) The postal service was forced to prefund pension obligations 75 years in advance. That is absolute nonsense and no other entity in existence is required to meet that ridiculous requirement.
2) The postal service is still used for official communication. When the court sends you a summons, it needs to get to its intended recipient. That requires some kind of infrastructure that is guaranteed to be available to every citizen. Currently, neither the internet nor private package delivery services can meet that standard and thus the UPS is needed until that changes.
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Not to mention classified documents up to and including Secret can and is sent via registered mail.
 
So, good news, no more mail from the IRS? Kill the PS now in that case. :lol:
 
American said:
Anyone want to take a stab at why the US Post Service continues to fail?
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Yeah, I'll take a stab at it
The $20 billion in postal losses you've heard about stems from a 2006 congressional mandate that the Postal Service pre-fund future retiree health benefits for the next 75 years and do so within a decade - a burden no other public agency or private firm faces. The Postal Service is actually paying, out of its operating budget, for the future retiree benefits of people who haven't been born yet. That cost - $21 billion since 2007 - accounts for 100 percent of the agency's red ink over that period.
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NOw would you care to deny that this is a fact? If so - provide us with other information.


here's more
The U.S. Postal Service | Need to Know | PBS

Operationally speaking, the USPS nets profits every year. The financial problem it faces now comes from a 2006 Congressional mandate that requires the agency to “pre-pay” into a fund that covers health care costs for future retired employees. Under the mandate, the USPS is required to make an annual $5.5 billion payment over ten years, through 2016.
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yet more
How Congress is killing the Post Office | Felix Salmon

There’s still room for the Postal Service to reorient itself and become a successful 21st-century utility — but there’s no way that’s going to happen if it’s constantly on the back foot and if Congress prevents it from entering new businesses, possibly including banking.

To put it another way: the Post Office is broken, in large part thanks to unhelpful meddling by Congress. And it won’t get fixed unless and until Congress gets out of the way and stops forcing it into the corporate equivalent of ketosis, essentially consuming its own flesh in order to survive.
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The may actually be good stewardship. An example of one of the few times Congress has seen the writing on the wall and done something about it BEFORE it implodes. The PS has been in a hole and dying for decades now, long before 2006. When it finally does give up the ghost the feds (us) won't be stuck with an unfunded liability that could last for decades on it's own.
 
clownboy said:
The may actually be good stewardship. An example of one of the few times Congress has seen the writing on the wall and done something about it BEFORE it implodes. The PS has been in a hole and dying for decades now, long before 2006. When it finally does give up the ghost the feds (us) won't be stuck with an unfunded liability that could last for decades on it's own.
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WHAAA? Without this mandate imposed by Congress, the USPS would be operating with a profit and that is accounting for normal industrial practice on funding employee retirement.
 
justabubba said:
U.S. Postal Service to end Saturday mail delivery in cost-cutting move | Dallas-Fort Worth Business News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News - The Dallas Morning News

effective august:
this has been the deal in canada since 1969
don't see it being anything but a positive

now to eliminate subsidizing junk/bulk mail
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Good riddance. Now If I only get them to stop delivering to me every other day. 99% of my mail is junk. I dont even check it but twice a month now.
 
clownboy said:
The may actually be good stewardship. An example of one of the few times Congress has seen the writing on the wall and done something about it BEFORE it implodes. The PS has been in a hole and dying for decades now, long before 2006. When it finally does give up the ghost the feds (us) won't be stuck with an unfunded liability that could last for decades on it's own.
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The math doesn't add up. Pensions have to funded an absurd 75 years in advance. Earliest retirement is 55, and that is only for people with 30 years of service. Assuming that the average retiree lives to the age of 90, that is only 35 years of pension payments for the youngest people eligible. That leaves an extra 40 years of payments without any purpose.

The 75 year requirement is utterly without reason and its telling that no other organization on the planet is saddled with it.
 
Somerville said:
WHAAA? Without this mandate imposed by Congress, the USPS would be operating with a profit and that is accounting for normal industrial practice on funding employee retirement.
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And many businesses who operate that way have gone out of business due to unfunded liabilities. What person would trust a business to be around to pay them a pension in 50 years? This is why most businesses have moved to a contribution system.
 
Somerville said:
WHAAA? Without this mandate imposed by Congress, the USPS would be operating with a profit and that is accounting for normal industrial practice on funding employee retirement.
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Phase out pensions entirely and let the employees fund their own 401Ks if they want to retire, like they should, and this wouldn't be an issue. There should be no such thing as a fully defined, guaranteed pension to any government employee. Yes, including our lovely elected officials.
 
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CanadaJohn said:
In most new housing developments, here in Canada, the houses don't get door-to-door delivery of the mail - the post office sets up a bank of mailboxes on corners and you have to go pick up your mail.
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Newer subdivisions here do the same thing. They still call it "home delivery".
 
Redress said:
Correct, but the UPS can deliver any package, which includes letters. Their only limitation is on the use of the mailbox to my understanding. They do, directly, compete with USPS.
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Not according to 18 USC § 1696 - Private express for letters and packets

(a) Whoever establishes any private express for the conveyance of letters or packets, or in any manner causes or provides for the conveyance of the same by regular trips or at stated periods over any post route which is or may be established by law, or from any city, town, or place to any other city, town, or place, between which the mail is regularly carried, shall be fined not more than $500 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.
This section shall not prohibit any person from receiving and delivering to the nearest post office, postal car, or other authorized depository for mail matter any mail matter properly stamped.

(b) Whoever transmits by private express or other unlawful means, or delivers to any agent thereof, or deposits at any appointed place, for the purpose of being so transmitted any letter or packet, shall be fined under this title.

(c) This chapter shall not prohibit the conveyance or transmission of letters or packets by private hands without compensation, or by special messenger employed for the particular occasion only. Whenever more than twenty-five such letters or packets are conveyed or transmitted by such special messenger, the requirements of section 601 of title 39, shall be observed as to each piece.
 
justabubba said:
U.S. Postal Service to end Saturday mail delivery in cost-cutting move | Dallas-Fort Worth Business News - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News - The Dallas Morning News

effective august:
this has been the deal in canada since 1969
don't see it being anything but a positive

now to eliminate subsidizing junk/bulk mail
Click to expand...

IIRC, junk mail has been carrying the post office, for some time now.
If I were them though, I'd try to encourage people to get P.O. Boxes rather than have home delivery.

That would be more efficient.
 
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