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Thread: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by RLN View Post
    There is such a thing as both sides of the story, you know?

    Wikipedia? You know that anyone can go in to that to put information in, right?

    And the pdf file. Can you break those 20 pages down please.

    Note in the YouTube video that Clinton didn't say "force them", so what's your point?

    And "Let Freedom Ring"? Are you serious?

    I'm sorry to tell you that a courtroom doesn't play that kind of malarkey from either party; they want backed-up facts.
    Which facts are in dispute?

    The facts have been out there for a long while yet its clear you have no idea what went on. Believe whatever you want and good luck.

  2. #72
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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    You work for the financial industry and your'e completely unaware of Govt's imposing of "affordable housing requirements " on the GSE's in 1992 ?

    It was 30% by the way or at least that's where it started when HUD was given the authority to administer these quotas which climbed up to 50% in the Clinton era. That's 50% of the GSEs total origination's had to be to people at or below the median income level in their communities.

    Your'e in the "financial industry " but are unaware that the securitizing of those sub prime loans was allowed by the Clinton administration and your'e "ignorant" of the fact that by 2008 there were 27 million sub-prime or low quality loans in the US financial system and of these over 70% ( 19 million or so ) were on the books of Government agencies like the GSE's and 60% of those ( about 12 million) were held by Fannie and Freddie.

    So much for your 80% number you pulled out of thin air. But your'e in the "financial industry".....

    Your'e in the "financial industry" but don't know about the CRA regulations in 1995 forced banks to "demonstrate" that they were making access to loans to people in the banks "community" and the enforcers of these regulations, the regulators themselves were co-opted into accepting lower and lower lending standards.

    Your'e in the "financial industry" but are ignorant of the fact that between 1995 and 2005 private traditional SUB-PRIME lenders like Country Wide were responsible for about 5% of total sub-prime loans and by the 2000's Fannie and Freddie were offering low quality loans at no money down.

    Barney Franks own words in 2010 on the Larry Kudrow show.... "I hope by next year we'll have abolished Fannie and Freddie ... it was a great mistake to push lower-income people into housing they couldn't afford and couldn't really handle once they had it."

    I know exactly who I'm "tangoing" with. Financial industry or not your'e poorly educated to the fundamental cause of the 2008 sub-prime collapse and are most likely just another Lib trying to mitigate the extensive damage of your parties policies.

    Libs lie, the obfuscate, they do stupid things like "blame Bush". I'm not one or one of their low information voters and it's going to take more than your numbers you've pulled out of thin air to convince me you know what your'e talking about.




    That assessment is an obtuse piece of flotsam. First of all, the Community Reinvestment Act was passed in 1977 and it was the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 (read GEORGE H.W. BUSH) which required Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to greatly expand their securitization of subprime loans. You are also intentionally skewing the data. 80% of subprime loans were issued by institutions which did NOT fall under the jurisdiction of the CRA. The vast majority of subprime loans did NOT originate from GSEs. The debt obligations were purchased. In fact, most of the toxic securities didn't even contain CRA loans. These facts are well documented and aptly pointed out in Michel Barr's testimony to Congress. Your entire statement is just know-nothing partisan hackery.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    I have no idea what else you could possibly need to form an opinion of what happened but you should have some knowledge of the history of the CRA before you even get involved in the discussion.
    People are claiming that the CRA forces banks to give loans to unqualified borrowers. I would like to see the language in the CRA legislation, or associated regulations, that require banks to give loans to people who are not qualified. I don't believe that such language exists because it is never quoted by the CRA opponents. I suspect that the opposition to the CRA is from racists and/or people who oppose government regulation against discrimination.

    If the argument is that regulators are misinterpreting the law or going beyond the law to force banks to give loans to the unqualified, then it is an issue with the interpretation or the enforcement, not the legislation itself. I don't believe that problem is widespread, but if anyone has statistics that doesn't come from a right wing organization that proves regulators frequently abused the law to force banks to provide loans to the unqualified I will reconsider.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I suspect that the opposition to the CRA is from racists and/or people who oppose government regulation against discrimination.
    We are going through the worst recession in 80 years, triggered by a wave of mortgage defaults. To say that opposition to legislation that contributed to all these risky mortgages is about racism, is an insult and a joke.

    Please try again, sans race card.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    We are going through the worst recession in 80 years, triggered by a wave of mortgage defaults. To say that opposition to legislation that contributed to all these risky mortgages is about racism, is an insult and a joke.

    Please try again, sans race card.
    Prove that the legislation "contributed to all these risky mortgages" with an excerpt from the part of the legislation that forces banks to loan to unqualified borrowers, otherwise you are just repeating a conservative talking point. I bet no one will because such a requirement doesn't exist in the CRA. The opposition to the CRA is not based on facts.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Which facts are in dispute?

    The facts have been out there for a long while yet its clear you have no idea what went on. Believe whatever you want and good luck.
    Trials have no luck, just facts.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Prove that the legislation "contributed to all these risky mortgages" with an excerpt from the part of the legislation that forces banks to loan to unqualified borrowers, otherwise you are just repeating a conservative talking point. I bet no one will because such a requirement doesn't exist in the CRA. The opposition to the CRA is not based on facts.
    Prove my opposition to it is racially motivated.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post


    That assessment is an obtuse piece of
    flotsam. First of all, the Community Reinvestment Act was passed in 1977 and it was the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 (read GEORGE H.W. BUSH) which required Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to greatly expand their securitization of subprime loans. You are also intentionally skewing the data. 80% of subprime loans were issued by institutions which did NOT fall under the jurisdiction of the CRA. The vast majority of subprime loans did NOT originate from GSEs. The debt obligations were purchased. In fact, most of the toxic securities didn't even contain CRA loans. These facts are well documented and aptly pointed out in Michel Barr's testimony to Congress. Your entire statement is just know-nothing partisan hackery.
    Lol ! You people are obsessed with Bush. Put down your George Bush doll and focus.

    I'm specifically addredsing issues that you seem to be ignoring. Debt obligations "purchased by the GSEs were purchased by .....the tax payer. We took the bath on that debt and that was mandated not by Bush but by slimey politicians in the 90s.

    The GSEs purchased **** loads of bad debt ? You think ? I think even the libs in Congress knew their policies were threatening to sink private lending institutions.

    Quotas for sub-prime debt purchased or otherwise still became part of a out of control Govt experiment that was mandated by DEMOCRATS. Quotas that were put in place and doubled down on by DEMOCRATS.

    CRA loans aren't the issue really.
    CRA given regulatory control in the early 90s over lending institutions in an effort to lower lending standards is the issue. HUD given regulatory control to force a quota system on the GSEs is the issue.

    Clinton allowing these loans to be securitized is the issue and if your going to talk about true origins then be objective and start at the begining.

    You get me ? I'm specifically speaking about who's respondible, who put the policies and regulations in place that started and perpetuated this mess.

    And its ALL on the Democrats.

    Whos policies allowed for the underwriting standards to be lowered ?

    If you say HUD didn't impose a quaota system on the GSEs then you would be lying.p

    If you say the GSEs didn't hold a majority of sub-prime debt when the inevitable happened you would be lying. Or Govt finacial institutions institutions in general you would be lying.

    If you say Barney Frank didn't advocate for the lowering of underwriting standards and then empower agencies like CRA and HUD to actually force the lowering of those standards then you would be lying.

    Libs always do this. Jump in to the debate at or around 2002 to pathetically blame Bush when Conservatives are trying to enlighten you guys and every one else on the ROOT CAUSE of the collapse.

    Hey, can you go get one of them GSE loans for no money down financed at 105% with an ARM now. ? Why not ?

    Did they do something about that ? Reinstate the standards that were institutionally driven down by politicians in the 90s.

    Yup.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    With out the lowering of underwriter standards for mortgages there would have been no "sub-prime" collapse period.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Without the institutionalizing of sub-prime debt by the GSEs who were put on a quota system in 1992 that started at 30% and stopped at 55% there would not have been a sub-prime collapse.

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