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Thread: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

  1. #251
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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I will agree that the housing crisis and subsequent recession were not
    totally Bush's fault, but his Administration did little to nothing to change the bubble or the regulations that the evil person Barney Frank supposedly created singlehandedly.

    The Government Accountability Office, the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies, the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission majority, the St Louis Federal Reserve and the Federal Housing Finance Agency, have all rejected the argument made by the ideologically-driven, that federal affordable housing policies were responsible for the proliferation of actual high-risk mortgages.



    Fenton makes the claim


    and those with knowledge tell us otherwise
    You can find all of the supporting data you need on the internet to cherry pick around my primary claim.

    That sub-prime bubble was Federally mandated through HUD and CRA regulations that were bolstered under Clinton.

    Prior to the 90s the GSEs could only buy mortgages that were prime. In 1989 The Financial Institution Reform Recovery and Enforcment Act " encouraged banks to go through the motions to comply with CRA regulations by proving they were looking for applicants that fit the CRA requirements.

    In 1995 Clinton requested the publishing of the HUD National Home Ownership Strategy and then moved the previous CRA enforcments from a process strategy to a "performance evaluation" system where banks instead of going through the proccess of meeting CRA requirements but not implementing them, which was legal under the 1989 bill, had to actually show they were making loans to low income borrowers.

    The Reigle-Neil Interstate Banking Efficiency Act of 1994 tied new acquisitions of every bank into CRA compliance.

    HUD..different but equally destructive regulator set quotas that started at 30% and went to 50% under Clinton amd then finally 55% under Bush.

    In 2002 the GSEs were at the 1 trillion dollar mark on low quality loans.

    The "Brookings Institute in 2004 ".....over the last decade Treasuries studies have shown that CRA helped to spur over a trillion in home mortgage , small bussiness, and community development lending to low and moderate income communities "

    Andrew Cuomo in 2000 ( HUD Secretary ) and not a Con...anounced that the GSEs were commited to purchasing 2 Trillion in "affordable mortgages".

    1997- the GSEs were offering 97% loan to value mortgages.
    2001 - the GSEs were offering loans with no down.
    2007- 55% of all GSEs mortgages had to be (LMI). Low quality. 38% of that had to be from "undeserved areas" and 25% had to be very low income borrowers

    1995-2007 1.3 Trillion in loans were purchased with 5% less down payment.


    2008 27 Million low quality loans, 20 million were on the books of Federal Agencies.

    12 million were held or guaranteed by the GSEs

    I could go on and on. The amount of objective data that proves this collapse was mandated by HUD and CRA regulations that forced the lowering of lendings standards and set quotas for the GSEs is almost endless.

    I wosh some of you would wake the hell up.

  2. #252
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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post

    I wosh some of you would wake the hell up.

    Not in your universe, I ain't - I prefer the real one



    Provide me with some sources for these numbers
    1997- the GSEs were offering 97% loan to value mortgages.
    2001 - the GSEs were offering loans with no down.
    2007- 55% of all GSEs mortgages had to be (LMI). Low quality. 38% of that had to be from "undeserved areas" and 25% had to be very low income borrowers

    1995-2007 1.3 Trillion in loans were purchased with 5% less down payment.


    2008 27 Million low quality loans, 20 million were on the books of Federal Agencies.

    12 million were held or guaranteed by the GSEs
    You make the claim -- YOU provide the backup
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    I found your source(s) Pinto and Wallison - two guys who like to make up their own definitions and also two guys known to use bad figures


    Got any others?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Not in your universe, I ain't - I prefer the
    real one



    Provide me with some sources for these numbers


    You make the claim -- YOU provide the backup
    Wow, you went from defending the one politician who was more involved in the sub prime collapse than any one individual or group of individuals to arguing quantity ?

    Why do you think the Dems didn't want that disgusting POS back ?

    I'm on a droid, and busy trying to isolate a cheecky Op-amp on a PLC PCB board. Ill post the links later.

    You see I'm multi-tasking using process signal analysis to trouble shoot a faulty PCB on a component level AND educating you about the liberal democrats complicity in the sub prime crash at the same time.

    You know you could, instead of wasting bandwidth defending crook politicians simply go look them up your self..

    You might realize the GSEs financed the near economic collapse of our Country trying to adhere to liberal Democrat mandates under HUD and CRA.
    Last edited by Fenton; 02-13-13 at 01:42 PM.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Wow, you went from defending the one politician who was more involved in the sub prime collapse than any one individual or group of individuals to arguing quantity ?

    Why do you think the Dems didn't want that disgusting POS back ?

    I'm on a droid, and busy trying to isolate a cheecky Op-amp on a PLC PCB board. Ill post the links later.

    You see I'm multi-tasking using process signal analysis to trouble shoot a faulty PCB on a component level AND educating you about the liberal democrats complicity in the sub prime crash at the same time.

    You know you could, instead of wasting bandwidth defending crook politicians simply go look them up your self..

    You might realize the GSEs financed the near economic collapse of our Country trying to adhere to liberal Democrat mandates under HUD and CRA.


    Your "I'm on a droid" excuse is getting old when one goes back to do a word count on your postings.


    No, I'm not looking it up for myself, I've actually done it already - I want to see if you are using easily refuted sources - which I believe you are as the numbers do coincide.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I found your source(s) Pinto and
    Wallison - two guys who like to make up their own definitions and also two guys known to use bad figures


    Got any others?
    Lol....that wasn't my source but nice attempt at doing nothing.

    I use multiple sources and not one of you Lib lackeys has even come close to countering my argument.

    The usual lib rebut starts like this..

    " no way you lie this is just a Conservative effort to spread lies. blah blah George Bush blah Krugman is God..."

    and after a few rebuts from me or the other bright posters who understand, truly understand the sub-prime crisis it turns into this...

    "...well sure Democrats were part of the blame, they did some of that stuff but GEORGE BUSH BLA BLA BLA BLA....

    You get it ?

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol....that wasn't my source but nice attempt at doing nothing.

    I use multiple sources and not one of you Lib lackeys has even come close to countering my argument.

    The usual lib rebut starts like this..

    " no way you lie this is just a Conservative effort to spread lies. blah blah George Bush blah Krugman is God..."

    and after a few rebuts from me or the other bright posters who understand, truly understand the sub-prime crisis it turns into this...

    "...well sure Democrats were part of the blame, they did some of that stuff but GEORGE BUSH BLA BLA BLA BLA....

    You get it ?

    Yeah I 'get it' - You got nothin', you know you got nothin' and never shall your mind be changed - the fall back position of the True Believer




    Oh and one other item: Pinto and Wallison would be TWO sources, not one
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Yeah I 'get it' - You got nothin', you know you got nothin' and never shall your

    mind be changed - the fall back position of the True Believer




    Oh and one other item: Pinto and Wallison would be TWO sources, not one
    Pinto and Wallison are YOUR sources apparently.

    Read the thread. Ive posted plenty of objective evidence, quotes from HUD and the GSEs, from Cuomo, Ive posted historical events, time, date, the actual names of the laws and regulations and agencies that created this mess.

    What have you posted ? Because NOTHING youv'e posted or will post will contradict anything I've said unless your'e willing to lie.

    The typical rebut from a Lib is the simplistic accusation that "its Bush's Fault" and then some desperate attempt starting somewhere around 2005. Unbeleivable.

    Someone even tried to quote Krugman. Paul Krugman. Yes, the lunatic Oped writer for the NY times.

    I guess that was supposed to be objective.

    Its not my fault your'e either too slow or too partisan to see the truth here.

    Ive "got nothing" but post after post of data. Youv'e offered up nonsense. Like your ignorant hopes to jail some banker, when the Govt GSEs financed this disaster.

    And people like you vote. Wow
    Last edited by Fenton; 02-13-13 at 04:28 PM.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Again, all the evidence presented has led me to this conclusion:
    The CRA does not require loans to unqualified borrowers. The enforcement measures implemented in the 1990s may have indirectly encouraged banks to give riskier loans. CRA loans were not a sufficiently significant portion of the defaulted loans to be the most significant cause of the mortgage crisis.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Again, all the evidence presented has led me to this conclusion:
    The CRA does not require loans to unqualified borrowers. The enforcement measures implemented in the 1990s may have indirectly encouraged banks to give riskier loans. CRA loans were not a sufficiently significant portion of the defaulted loans to be the most significant cause of the mortgage crisis.
    Someone obviously isnt listening.

    You keep focusing on CRA qualified/CRA regulated etc etc. We keep saying it was the catalyst and the mechanisms that allowed the risk to get socialized was enabled and legislated to allow easier compliance with CRA. CRA wasnt the SOLE source of the blame, the straw man argument you keep pushing; it was an element in the crisis.
    Just as obviously with bolded, then why were people that were previously unqualified getting loans after CRA regulations were changed in the 90s?

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