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Thread: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    What happened "way before Bush's term"? Certainly not a housing bubble, that happened on Bushs watch while a GOP majority in Congress twiddled their thumbs. Blaming Clinton for something the Congress could have ended in a heartbeat is ludicrous. The fact is that there was no problem until Bush was in office, he did nothing about it and so it is his baby, just like the "Minority Housing Initiative" and the $440 billion in bad loans he sold to Fannie Mae was his baby too.
    The US right have been spreading lies since day one, because they realized it was their policies that fueled the crisis and made it blow up. If you remember back in 2007-8, the only comments we got from the GOP was about blaming Fannie and Freddie, while all reports showed that the problem children were all in the private sector and that the sub-prime loans that caused the ultimate collapse were sold by predatory private banking institutions like Washington Mutal, Bank of America and so on.... all the banks that were bailed out.

    This whole thread is a continuation of the same horse**** that the GOP has spread the last 5 years.. blaming Fannie and Freddie for all the ills of the financial crisis, in an attempt to hide their own complicity in the crisis.

    There is no doubt that Fannie and Freddie are in trouble, and the reason are simple... they cater to the lower end of the mortgage market, which of course are people who get hit first in any financial crisis and hence the default rate is higher over time than anyone else. But blaming these 2 institutions for the crisis is beyond idiotic as it gives the private banking sector who caused the crisis a free pass... and that is just wrong.
    PeteEU

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    You have sighted right wing think tanks
    who are so deep into to hating Fannie and Freddie that their findings are at best laughable. Funny thing, it was these very same experts that pushed for a deregulation of the banking sector that directly lead to the crisis in the first place.. running from responsibility again I see ..



    Oh I know... had Clinton not signed the 96 law, pushed by the GOP and written by the GOP... then the financial crisis would never have been as bad as it has been or maybe even happened. The fact that the barrier between banks and investment banks was shattered and the two allowed to mix drove the whole crisis.



    How on earth could Clinton do anything.. the GOP had congress. Running from responsibility again I see.



    Again wrong. While GSE's do hold and held sub-prime mortgages... it was kind of why they were formed in the first place, but they did not hold the crap that caused the crisis because this crap would not meet their regulatory standards... go read up on it, you might learn something. Why else did Washington Mutal go belly up... oh yea the sold crap that was so bad that not even Fannie and Freddie were allowed to buy it up.



    Attempting to insult me only shows how little you actually have to back up your claims.



    Again with the personal insults, and why did you say end of 2008.... odd date since the **** hit the fan in 2007 and bailouts happened in 2007 and early 2008.. and one of the ways to bail out the private sector was to move the crap onto GSE's books.
    The GSEs were suppposed to buy up the majority of sub-prime debt and drive us into a economic collapse ?

    Really ? News Flash, it was all crap. Sub-prime defaults were not isolated to the "good" sub prime mortgages.

    And those laws Clinton signed were pushed by liberal Democrats like Barney Frank and community organizer groups like ACORN.

    Yea the Republicans are all about ACORN and Barney Frank.

    The securitization of the loans was obviously a bad idea, Clinton could have vetoed all of it, but it fit his redistributive beliefs to the core.

    Quotas put under HUD and a increase in CRA regulations can directly be traced back to liberal Democrats, because HUD has always been a Conservative pet project.

    No, no it hasn't.

    Too bad your attempt at twisting the facts and asigning blame over regulations that institutionalized the sub-prime collapse are being ignored.

    More and more people are waking up to the reality that lowering Lending standards through CRA and HUD compliance caused the greatest bubble of all times in terms of losses and economic impact.

    New studies are proving the destructive policies under liberal programs were what started and perpetuated the collapse.

    You know , the ones you chose to ignore as you offer up the one dimensional explanation of "its Bush's fault.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The US right have been spreading lies since
    day one, because they realized it was
    their policies that fueled the crisis and made it blow up. If you remember back in 2007-8, the only comments we got from the GOP was about blaming Fannie and Freddie, while all reports showed that the problem children were all in the private sector and that the sub-prime loans that caused the ultimate collapse were sold by predatory private banking institutions like Washington Mutal, Bank of America and so on.... all the banks that were bailed out.

    This whole thread is a continuation of the same horse**** that the GOP has spread the last 5 years.. blaming Fannie and Freddie for all the ills of the financial crisis, in an attempt to hide their own complicity in the crisis.

    There is no doubt that Fannie and Freddie are in trouble, and the reason are simple... they cater to the lower end of the mortgage market, which of course are people who get hit first in any financial crisis and hence the default rate is higher over time than anyone else. But blaming these 2 institutions for the crisis is beyond idiotic as it gives the private banking sector who caused the crisis a free pass... and that is just wrong.

    Lol....2007-2008..?

    Hillarious.

    Fannie and Freddie were begging banks for their sub-prime debt so they could meet their quotas.

    Banks that were insured Federally had to meet CRA requirments.

    Read the latest study. Argue with it.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    LOL IBD is not a viable source. They are obviously shilling for the banks. This whole myth was debunked years ago. I can't believe you still aren't in on the joke. Hint: No actual numbers were revealed in that "study" only %. That's because the joke is that CRA loans made up less than 20% of subprime loans. 80% were not subject to CRA (or any other) regulations AT ALL. and that 80% contained the very worst of the predatory loans. CRA loans were much less likely to default because of better terms and income verification.

    Fresh off the false and politicized attack on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, today we’re hearing the know-nothings blame the subprime crisis on the Community Reinvestment Act — a 30-year-old law that was actually weakened by the Bush administration just as the worst lending wave began. This is even more ridiculous than blaming Freddie and Fannie.


    Community Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with subprime crisis - BusinessWeek
    Denial is never healthy or attractive.
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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Denial is never healthy or attractive.
    Neither is your revisionist crap. You have nothing but drivel that only fools would believe.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The GSEs were suppposed to buy up the majority of sub-prime debt and drive us into a economic collapse ?

    Really ? News Flash, it was all crap. Sub-prime defaults were not isolated to the "good" sub prime mortgages.

    And those laws Clinton signed were pushed by liberal Democrats like Barney Frank and community organizer groups like ACORN.

    Yea the Republicans are all about ACORN and Barney Frank.

    The securitization of the loans was obviously a bad idea, Clinton could have vetoed all of it, but it fit his redistributive beliefs to the core.

    Quotas put under HUD and a increase in CRA regulations can directly be traced back to liberal Democrats, because HUD has always been a Conservative pet project.

    No, no it hasn't.

    Too bad your attempt at twisting the facts and asigning blame over regulations that institutionalized the sub-prime collapse are being ignored.

    More and more people are waking up to the reality that lowering Lending standards through CRA and HUD compliance caused the greatest bubble of all times in terms of losses and economic impact.

    New studies are proving the destructive policies under liberal programs were what started and perpetuated the collapse.

    You know , the ones you chose to ignore as you offer up the one dimensional explanation of "its Bush's fault.
    It's Bush's fault because he was in charge. Why do you deny he was CIC? Why do you deny the Rep. majorities in both Houses he enjoyed?
    Even the great and powerful Barney Franks could not have stopped him if he tried. He even sold $440 Billion in subprime loans to Fannie Mae and not one of them was a CRA loan. In 2004, He used Federal power to keep the ball rolling by stopping the States from regulating the predatory mortgages with their own laws. How much more do you need. He REALLY wanted that housing bubble in the worst way. It was his only hope of any growth in the stagnant economy his policies were causing. Like everything Bush did, it was a complete disaster.
    Last edited by iguanaman; 02-13-13 at 02:09 AM.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Lol....2007-2008..?

    Hillarious.

    Fannie and Freddie were begging banks for their sub-prime debt so they could meet their quotas.

    Banks that were insured Federally had to meet CRA requirments.

    Read the latest study. Argue with it.
    Over 80% of subprime loans were not CRA qualified and had no regulations at all. If the only subprimes sold were CRA loans there would have been no housing bubble at all. That study fails to mention that. I wonder why?


    The Community Reinvestment Act, passed in 1977, requires banks to lend in the low-income neighborhoods where they take deposits. Just the idea that a lending crisis created from 2004 to 2007 was caused by a 1977 law is silly. But it’s even more ridiculous when you consider that most subprime loans were made by firms that aren’t subject to the CRA. University of Michigan law professor Michael Barr testified back in February before the House Committee on Financial Services that 50% of subprime loans were made by mortgage service companies not subject comprehensive federal supervision and another 30% were made by affiliates of banks or thrifts which are not subject to routine supervision or examinations. As former Fed Governor Ned Gramlich said in an August, 2007, speech shortly before he passed away: “In the subprime market where we badly need supervision, a majority of loans are made with very little supervision. It is like a city with a murder law, but no cops on the beat.”

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Over 80% of subprime loans were not CRA qualified and had no regulations at all. If the only subprimes sold were CRA loans there would have been no housing bubble at all. That study fails to mention that. I wonder why?
    So, how did Fannie and Freddie wind up with half the mortgage paper in the US?

    You keep focusing on CRA qualified/CRA regulated etc etc. We keep saying it was the catalyst and the mechanisms that allowed the risk to get socialized was enabled and legislated to allow easier compliance with CRA. CRA wasnt the SOLE source of the blame, the straw man argument you keep pushing; it was an element in the crisis.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    It's Bush's fault because he was in charge. Why do you deny he was CIC? Why do
    you deny the Rep. majorities in both Houses he enjoyed?
    Even the great and powerful Barney Franks could not have stopped him if he tried. He even sold $440 Billion in subprime loans to Fannie Mae and not one of them was a CRA loan. In 2004, He used Federal power to keep the ball rolling by stopping the States from regulating the predatory mortgages with their own laws. How much more do you need. He REALLY wanted that housing bubble in the worst way. It was his only hope of any growth in the stagnant economy his policies were causing. Like everything Bush did, it was a complete disaster.
    "It's Bush's fault, it's Bush's fault..."

    Raving liberals and their one dimensional empty accusations.

    Your "80%" number ? Where did you get it from ?

    And without the CRA and HUD regulatory powers that were pushed through by yoir slimey bunch, these loans would have never seen the light of day.

    Truth is out. The Democrats institutionalized the greatest financial crash of all times

    Mandated even. And you guys response to thst was to........elect the least competent csndidate in our nations History.

    Now an exploding debt, increased unemployment, massive deficit spending, a shrinking economy, and increased dependent class is your an to fix your mess feom the sub-prime collapse.

    I think the GSEs wound up with over 60% of all sub-prime debt and Govt financial agencies wound up with and extra 20%.

    Who mandated their increased exposure to bad debt ? You want a hint ? It wasn't a Republican.

    Your one dimensional blame the bank nonsense doesn't mention Fannies massive buying, bundling and selling of good mixed with bad MBSs...

    I wonder why. The GSEs are directly responsible for screwing over millions of investors by doing that. AND bankrupting 100 year old investment bank. But you give them a pass....

    Expected.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    "It's Bush's fault, it's Bush's fault..."

    Raving liberals and their one dimensional empty accusations.

    Your "80%" number ? Where did you get it from ?

    And without the CRA and HUD regulatory powers that were pushed through by yoir slimey bunch, these loans would have never seen the light of day.

    Truth is out. The Democrats institutionalized the greatest financial crash of all times

    Mandated even. And you guys response to thst was to........elect the least competent csndidate in our nations History.

    Now an exploding debt, increased unemployment, massive deficit spending, a shrinking economy, and increased dependent class is your an to fix your mess feom the sub-prime collapse.

    I think the GSEs wound up with over 60% of all sub-prime debt and Govt financial agencies wound up with and extra 20%.

    Who mandated their increased exposure to bad debt ? You want a hint ? It wasn't a Republican.

    Your one dimensional blame the bank nonsense doesn't mention Fannies massive buying, bundling and selling of good mixed with bad MBSs...

    I wonder why. The GSEs are directly responsible for screwing over millions of investors by doing that. AND bankrupting 100 year old investment bank. But you give them a pass....

    Expected.

    I will agree that the housing crisis and subsequent recession were not totally Bush's fault, but his Administration did little to nothing to change the bubble or the regulations that the evil person Barney Frank supposedly created singlehandedly.

    The Government Accountability Office, the Harvard Joint Center for Housing Studies, the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission majority, the St Louis Federal Reserve and the Federal Housing Finance Agency, have all rejected the argument made by the ideologically-driven, that federal affordable housing policies were responsible for the proliferation of actual high-risk mortgages.

    http://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/...onclusions.pdf

    The Commission concludes the CRA was not a significant factor in subprime lending
    or the crisis. Many subprime lenders were not subject to the CRA. Research indicates
    only  of high-cost loans—a proxy for subprime loans—had any connection to
    the law. Loans made by CRA-regulated lenders in the neighborhoods in which they
    were required to lend were half as likely to default as similar loans made in the same
    neighborhoods by independent mortgage originators not subject to the law.

    Nonetheless, we make the following observation about government housing policies
    ... the government failed to ensure that the philosophy of opportunity was
    being matched by the practical realities on the ground. Witness again the failure of
    the Federal Reserve and other regulators to rein in irresponsible lending.
    Fenton makes the claim
    I think the GSEs wound up with over 60% of all sub-prime debt and Govt financial agencies wound up with and extra 20%.

    Your one dimensional blame the bank nonsense doesn't mention Fannies massive buying, bundling and selling of good mixed with bad MBSs...
    and those with knowledge tell us otherwise
    http://www.fhfa.gov/webfiles/16711/RiskChars9132010.pdf

    * Enterprise-acquired mortgages were predominantly fixed-rate loans. Such loans comprised 88 percent of all Enterprise-acquired mortgages originated between 2001 and 2008 and ranged from 79 percent for 2004 originations to 96 percent for 2001 originations.
    <snip>

    * Roughly 5 percent of Enterprise-acquired fixed-rate mortgages (FRMs) and 10 percent of Enterprise-acquired adjustable-rate mortgages (ARMs) were ever 90-days delinquent at some point before the end of 2009.

    * In contrast, roughly 20 percent of FRMs financed with private-label MBS and 30 percent of ARMs financed with private-label MBS were ever 90-days delinquent at some point before year-end 2009. The relatively worse performance of private-label MBS-financed mortgages was consistent across origination years and, within each year, across nearly all groups of loans with similar LTV ratios and FICO scores.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
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