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Thread: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    You know when asking people for a down payment and refusing people that had poor credit history was deemed "racist".
    That's not so. The only thing the government stepped in on is (for example.) if a black man had a good credit rating, than he could not be turned down for a loan. The government can't make a financial institution proceed on a bad credit rating. And about those so-called Democrat thugs? let Standard and Poor start pointing fingers and bringing it in to a courtroom.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by RLN View Post
    That's not so. The only thing the government stepped in on is (for example.) if a black man had a good credit rating, than he could not be turned down for a loan. The government can't make a financial institution proceed on a bad credit rating. And about those so-called Democrat thugs? let Standard and Poor start pointing fingers and bringing it in to a courtroom.
    It is true, CRA forced many bankers to lend money to people that normally would have been turned away.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    When S&P gives a loan a AAA rating, they are making a good faith claim that they
    believe it has a low risk of default. They are not saying "its a piece of junk but don't worry the government will bail you out anyway".

    S&P made fraudulent claims when they gave crap mortgages AAA ratings and they should be brought to justice for it. I am not unaware that the motivations for the lawsuit may be corrupt, but that doesn't make the case invalid. Its extremely common for the government to do the right thing for the wrong reason.
    The S&P isn't the cause or the one who engineered our near economic collapse. They held those MBS to the same AAA standards of the United States Treasury bonds and its not a coincidence since most of those securities were in fact guaranteed by the US Govt.

    Show proof that the S& P knew the GSEs were bundling bad loans with good ones to sell off to fund the secondary market and I'll listen.



    Eric Holder use to work for Janet Reno when banks were being strong armed into lowering underwriting standards for loans.

    Its so petty and childish and blatant what they're doing by threatening the S&P. And right when the US is borrowing Trillions and tax reciepts are shrinking.

    Of course the S&P's going to down grade our Treasuries.

    When those who created it are either in power or share their ideology and are being ignored.

    Barney Frank was allowed to write banking legislation on his way out. If there was one politician more responsible for the sub-prime debacle it was him.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
    It is true, CRA forced many bankers to lend money to people that normally would have been turned away.
    Well I guess we will see when the trial starts, right?
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by RLN View Post
    Well I guess we will see when the trial starts, right?
    Trials very seldom focus on truth, even they are political arenas now.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by RLN View Post
    That's not so. The only thing the government
    stepped in on is (for example.) if a black man had a good credit rating, than he could not be turned down for a loan. The government can't make a financial institution proceed on a bad credit rating. And about those so-called Democrat thugs? let Standard and Poor start pointing fingers and bringing it in to a courtroom.
    Wrong, try again.

    The CRA was given regulatory power in the early 90s to stop "redlining".

    Redling is actually what banks have been doing for the last 100 years or so to guarantee they don't crash and burn lending bums money.

    Its making sure the loan recipient had collateral, credit and a down payment.

    Also in the early 90s the GSEs made massive commitnents to the sub-prime market. Fannies sub prime originations for the last 70 years as a percentage of their entire originations ? 10%

    After 2009 ? 45%. So the "banks" forced the GSEs to buy up sub-prime loans, forced them to package and sell those loans to the investment banks as dirivitives ?

    Nope. Clinton put the GSEs in high gear and the regulatory control of the CRA and HUD forced private banks to create a loan for lenders at risk.

    Why do you think Holder just fined Wells Fargo 175 million dollars ?

    Plueeeze pick up a book

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Plueeeze pick up a book
    Wrong. Please pick up a newspaper. I'll guarantee you that the states and the feds know something, and you are going to see it in that trial.
    "The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations." `Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The S&P isn't the cause or the one who engineered our near economic collapse. They held those MBS to the same AAA standards of the United States Treasury bonds and its not a coincidence since most of those securities were in fact guaranteed by the US Govt.

    Show proof that the S& P knew the GSEs were bundling bad loans with good ones to sell off to fund the secondary market and I'll listen.
    Private Label MBS products were given AAA ratings by S&P, so your attempt to link everything to the GSE's is without merit. The rating that S&P gave were clearly false and they obviously had a massive conflict of interest. The only question is whether S&P can get away with pretending they are merely grossly incompetent instead of fraudulent.

    Eric Holder use to work for Janet Reno when banks were being strong armed into lowering underwriting standards for loans.

    Its so petty and childish and blatant what they're doing by threatening the S&P. And right when the US is borrowing Trillions and tax reciepts are shrinking.

    Of course the S&P's going to down grade our Treasuries.

    When those who created it are either in power or share their ideology and are being ignored.

    Barney Frank was allowed to write banking legislation on his way out. If there was one politician more responsible for the sub-prime debacle it was him.
    There is no legal concept in our justice system where you can be excused of committing fraud by whining about the misdeeds of other parties. You can quite reasonably argue that there are plenty of other people who should be in the noose right alongside S&P, but that doesn't make them innocent.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Wrong, try again. The CRA was given regulatory power in the early 90s to stop "redlining". Redling is actually what banks have been doing for the last 100 years or so to guarantee they don't crash and burn lending bums money.
    It is worth noting that 80% of sub-prime loans were issued by institutions which did not fall under the jurisdiction of the CRA. In other words, they deliberately sought out high-risk clientele of their own free will. Back then, the risk wasn't that great; a financial institution could easily wind up making a profit from a foreclosure. But then the Real Estate bubble burst, home values depreciated, and they were saddled with foreclosed properties no one wanted to buy.

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    Re: U.S. sues S&P over subprime ratings

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    When S&P gives a loan a AAA rating, they are making a good faith claim that they believe it has a low risk of default. They are not saying "its a piece of junk but don't worry the government will bail you out anyway".

    S&P made fraudulent claims when they gave crap mortgages AAA ratings and they should be brought to justice for it. I am not unaware that the motivations for the lawsuit may be corrupt, but that doesn't make the case invalid. Its extremely common for the government to do the right thing for the wrong reason.

    S&P gives ratings to securities not loans. S&P is accused, not of giving bad ratings, but for breaking their own rules in which the raters told the banks what to put in the securities to make them AAA. But all of the rating agencies did this.

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