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CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

polgara said:
But not unexpected!

It's what we have come to see as normal...make a mistake, then blame someone else... anyone else!

I sure hope I live long enough to meet one of those perfect beings...it would be the highlight of my life! :lamo
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Good morning Lady P - let me introduce myself, I'm Perfect!!
 
Paschendale said:
Again, if we just did the smart thing and went for UHC like all the reformers wanted in the first place, all of this could have been avoided. Instead the got the watered down, profit driven, Romneycare plan. Aren't you proud of yourself?
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Just who is "we"? PPACA was created entirely by demorats and recieved (and needed) ZERO republicant's votes. Are you disrespecting the "leadership" of Obama, Pelosi and Reid? ;)
 
CanadaJohn said:
Good morning Lady P - let me introduce myself, I'm Perfect!!
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Good morning, CJ.

Oh, I already knew that! :)

You just have to work a little harder on the "blaming someone else" part...you just don't have it down pat yet....
 
polgara said:
Good morning, CJ.

Oh, I already knew that! :)

You just have to work a little harder on the "blaming someone else" part...you just don't have it down pat yet....
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Never was any good at blaming others - I make so many mistakes, it's hard to find enough others to blame.
 
Meh, all it says is that, because of the ATRA, the government will stop subsidizing some folks health care, via tax breaks for the company they work for.

The sooner we get away from employer based health insurance, the better.

Lower marginal tax rates under the American Taxpayer Relief Act reduce the tax benefit associated with employment-based health insurance and will lead to a greater reduction in such coverage and higher
enrollment in insurance exchanges than previously estimated by CBO and JCT.

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/43907-BudgetOutlook.pdf
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upsideguy said:
Calling a valid argument a "lie" or even worse a "LIE" shows weakness in argument... underscored by the fact that the best you could do is provide your own opinion in retort. I see no back up to your claim. Now, it was fair game to argue why life expectancy and infant mortality are not full indicators.... and you made some attempt at that argument. But, these factors remain the primary measure of world health organizations...so you can not call the comparison of cost to life expectancy a "lie" when it is the accepted language of measure...

Taking us beyond the raw numbers for reason is intelligent argument. In doing so, however, you can’t dismiss widely acknowledged facts as mere “lies” .... they are facts. You can, however, acknowledge the fact in a “yes, but have to understand” fashion. As a matter of illustration, the discussion of the national debt has a similar argument…. The fact is that national debt rose by $5T during the Obama administration... it’s a fact (not a lie)… but to truly understand “how” or to appropriately argue that such is not Obama's fault is a “yes, but you have to understand argument” We will stop there as that particular argument has another place (plenty of places, in fact) to carry on. The point is that to be credible in retort you have to acknowledge the obvious…

I did follow-up on your arguments. Since you gave me no support for your assertions (you should have), I found my own:

http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1012&context=psc_working_papers
National-Academies.org | Newsroom

Now each of these articles takes out accidents, murders and other deaths largely attributable to those under 50… Over 50 results are still poor (29th in world). So forget murders and accidents in your retort, they are irrelevant. But, the articles do well illustrate the complexity of using longevity as a sole determinant of quality in measuring the healthcare delivery system. They do not blame the healthcare delivery system for the poor result. So, I learned something here by going a bit deeper. Thank you.

These studies, however, do not lead anyone to the conclusion that the US has the BEST healthcare in the world. They merely suggest that our life expectancy is shorter for complex reasons. At best, they make the argument that our healthcare results are not as ugly as portrayed. They never address the high cost of delivery, hence the efficiency thereof. At best, the conclusion might be that the US delivery system “Costs more, does the same”… if so, it is still one of the most inefficient systems in the industrial world.

You, OTH, went even bolder than to argue that are system wasn’t bad; you asserted that we are “ the world leader in healthcare performance” Sorry, while you refuted the facts that held the claim that we were as bad as #37 (WHO rankings), you offered ZERO evidence that we were the best. It appears you logic is that if we are not #37 then we must be #1. Clean that one up or back down as the prevailing evidence is that the US system is, at best, OK.

Now, my major point on the weakness of the healthcare system is the lack of access. The fact that 48 million people (pre ACA) have no access to healthcare is a significant contributing factor. You can’t have 1/6 of your population outside the system and claim it’s a great delivery system. Now, to me that seems axiomatic.... but I like to back up what I say.

New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage | Harvard Gazette
Access to Health Care
http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/1420-14.pdf
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I had a long and detailed response, but unfortunately I lost my post.

Unfortunately, I have to go meet up with a study group so I'll just give you my cites.

MMS: Error
U.S. Cancer Care Is Number One | NCPA
Why That 48 Million Uninsured Number is Wrong | National Review Institute Blog
The Health and Medical Technology Industry in the United States | SelectUSA
The Ignored Facts of American Healthcare | Hoover Institution
 
upsideguy said:
...might be why I included 3 cites... which,
may I point, is 2 to 3 more than my
leading competitor. Here is another, if the previous were not sufficient...

http://umaine.edu/ble/files/2011/01/...are-system.pdf

The graph is nonetheless quite revealing... I mean, there isn't a small difference here but a huge difference. While lifestyle might be part of the story, it isn't close to the whole story.

The real guts of why US has poorer healthcare outcomes is that so many people in the US have no healthcare access... and healthcare for the uninsured is not about prevention but about crisis.... Somewhat akin to car maintenance by fixing known problems rather than changing the oil.
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Poor analogy. What if that "car" ate massive amounts of high fat foods and processed sugar and sat on its fat ass all day ?

What if we had a near public emergency proportion of "cars" with type 2 diabeetees ?

Canada can keep its long waits for basic procedures and its disgusting overcrowded ER rooms as it controls its rising healrh care expense by limiting treatments.

You realize there is a push in single payer systems to privatize because rationed care paid for with increased tax's is at best inhumane.

Also, you people lie. You just do. ObamaCare is going to be a disaster and that 7million # is going to triple by 2020.

UHC in a Country of 300+ million with an open Southern border ?

HOW could it be payed for ?
 
ReformCollege said:
I had a long and detailed response, but unfortunately I lost my post.

Unfortunately, I have to go meet up with a study group so I'll just give you my cites.

MMS: Error
U.S. Cancer Care Is Number One | NCPA
Why That 48 Million Uninsured Number is Wrong | National Review Institute Blog
The Health and Medical Technology Industry in the United States | SelectUSA
The Ignored Facts of American Healthcare | Hoover Institution
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Thank you. Those were all excellent. You adequately made your point. I do take exception with some aspects of a couple of nits within, including a couple of polls cited were unsupported and inconsistent with other national polls on healthcare satisfaction and comparing US seniors of lower income to other seniors of lower income suggesting that its a comparison of private healthcare to public healthcare as our seniors are on public healthcare. Those are nits.

Collectively I think you supported the "yes, but consider this.." argument I was looking for. That said, collectively, the documents argue more for parity of US quality to the rest of the world (without addressing cost, hence efficiency) rather than superiority... but that is ok, as they well refute the notion that US healthcare is at the bottom of the industrial world. I will be a little less adamant in touting the significance life expectancy to cost in the future (until I find some reason to think otherwise).
 
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