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Thread: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

  1. #31
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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Gosh. Goodness Gracious. Well who could have predicted that?!?




    Oh. Wait. Lots of people predicted this, to the collective ignorance of the la-la-law-we-can't-hear-you-obamacare-is-wonderful-no-matter-what's-in-it crowd.
    This is just the tip of the iceberg........Small businesses closing everyone............more people losing their job everyday....Inflation goingup.....Unless something is done King Obama will destroy this country as we know it in the next 4 years.......wake up before its to late....
    Last edited by Navy Pride; 02-07-13 at 01:01 AM.
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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Gosh. Goodness Gracious. Well who could have predicted that?!?




    Oh. Wait. Lots of people predicted this, to the collective ignorance of the la-la-law-we-can't-hear-you-obamacare-is-wonderful-no-matter-what's-in-it crowd.
    Obamacare isn't universal healthcare, some Democrats seem to think it is. I prefer the New Zealand health system in terms of cutting down costs and keeping the private sector on board. Now this is privately and publicly funded universal healthcare, so people can see the difference:
    The healthcare system of New Zealand has undergone significant changes throughout the past several decades. From an essentially fully public system in the early 20th century, reforms have introduced market and health insurance elements primarily in the last three decades, creating a mixed public-private system for delivering healthcare.

    The Accident Compensation Corporation covers the costs of treatment for cases deemed 'accidents', including medical misadventure, for all people legally in New Zealand (including tourists), with the costs recovered via levies on employers, employees and some other sources such as car registration.

    The relatively extensive and high-quality system of public hospitals treats citizens or permanent residents free of charge and is managed by District Health Boards. However, costly or difficult operations often require long waiting list delays unless the treatment is medically urgent.[1] Because of this, a secondary market of health insurance schemes exists which fund operations and treatments for their members privately. Southern Cross Health Insurance, a non-profit-scheme, is the largest of these at about 60% of the health insurance market and covering almost a quarter of all New Zealanders in 2007, even operating its own chain of hospitals.[2]

    Primary care (non-specialist doctors / family doctors) and medications on the list of the New Zealand government agency PHARMAC require co-payments, but are subsidised, especially for patients with community health services cards or high user health cards.

    Emergency services are primarily provided by St. John New Zealand charity (as well as Wellington Free Ambulance in the Wellington Region), supported with a mix of private (donated) and public (subsidy) funds.

    In 2005, New Zealand spent 8.9% of GDP on health care, or US$2,403 per capita. Of that, approximately 77% was government expenditure.[3] In a 2010 study, New Zealand came last in a study for the level of medications use in 14 developed countries (i.e. used least medicines overall), and also spent the lowest amount on healthcare amongst the same list of countries, with US$2510 ($3460) per capita, compared to the United States at US$7290.[4]
    Health care in New Zealand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The downside is that some experimental treatment isn't government funded.

    Last edited by SidewaysBear; 02-07-13 at 01:06 AM.

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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Gosh. Goodness Gracious. Well who could have predicted that?!?


    Oh. Wait. Lots of people predicted this, to the collective ignorance of the la-la-law-we-can't-hear-you-obamacare-is-wonderful-no-matter-what's-in-it crowd.
    For the record I'm certainly no where close to being a fan of Obamacare, but to be honest I certainly have not lost any what so ever of my healthcare, not even close. Honestly it hasn't even effected me one bit
    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    That is the most outrageous partisan hackery message I've seen on the forum. Blaming ObamaCare on Romney? That is so far off the deep end it is astonishing.
    It's only a matter of time before they start blaming the disaster of its implementation on Bush.

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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    It's only a matter of time before they start blaming the disaster of its implementation on Bush.
    To late.....HOJ has already been making the rounds.

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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    To late.....HOJ has already been making the rounds.
    proving once again that farce has no chance against life.



    that's perfect.

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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Again, if we just did the smart thing and went for UHC like all the reformers wanted in the first place, all of this could have been avoided. Instead the got the watered down, profit driven, Romneycare plan. Aren't you proud of yourself?
    It was Obama's plan. Aren't you proud of YOURSELF? See socialism at work. That means government run stuff. You people always have excuses for your failures. Always blame someone else, now you're blaming the people that didn't vote for it.

    Pathetic.
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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    employer-specific coverage is the worst part of the American system. it makes businesses uncompetitive, it discourages entrepreneurs, and it's a massive headache for those who are changing jobs. frankly, I'm amazed that conservatives defend the system. the pro-business argument would be to unlink health insurance and specific employment completely.

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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    So you like having one of the most expensive, least effective health care delivery systems in the industrial world?

    The 36 Best Healthcare Systems In The World - Business Insider
    Healthcare spending around the world, country by country | News | guardian.co.uk

    Attachment 67142092
    Ah, the joys of having a homogenous population.

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    Re: CBO : 7 Million to Lose their Insurance under Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    Life expectancy has plenty of factors into it that have nothing to do with healthcare. Like gun violence for example. Or car crashes. Did you guess that we have enormously higher numbers of both then any of those countries? So lets just say we were to ignore those for life expectancy to get a more accurate metric for our health care system. Where do you think we would rank then? Would you guess that it is number one?

    If you were to compare cancer survival rates, where do you think the U.S. would be? Would you guess number one?

    http://www.aei.org/files/2006/10/17/...esentation.pdf

    The U.S. is the world leader in medical technology and the world leader in health care performance. Using general broad oversweeping statistics that include things that have nothing to do with healthcare to attack the healthcare system is a flat out, politicized LIE.
    Calling a valid argument a "lie" or even worse a "LIE" shows weakness in argument... underscored by the fact that the best you could do is provide your own opinion in retort. I see no back up to your claim. Now, it was fair game to argue why life expectancy and infant mortality are not full indicators.... and you made some attempt at that argument. But, these factors remain the primary measure of world health organizations...so you can not call the comparison of cost to life expectancy a "lie" when it is the accepted language of measure...

    Taking us beyond the raw numbers for reason is intelligent argument. In doing so, however, you can’t dismiss widely acknowledged facts as mere “lies” .... they are facts. You can, however, acknowledge the fact in a “yes, but have to understand” fashion. As a matter of illustration, the discussion of the national debt has a similar argument…. The fact is that national debt rose by $5T during the Obama administration... it’s a fact (not a lie)… but to truly understand “how” or to appropriately argue that such is not Obama's fault is a “yes, but you have to understand argument” We will stop there as that particular argument has another place (plenty of places, in fact) to carry on. The point is that to be credible in retort you have to acknowledge the obvious…

    I did follow-up on your arguments. Since you gave me no support for your assertions (you should have), I found my own:

    http://repository.upenn.edu/cgi/view...working_papers
    National-Academies.org | Newsroom

    Now each of these articles takes out accidents, murders and other deaths largely attributable to those under 50… Over 50 results are still poor (29th in world). So forget murders and accidents in your retort, they are irrelevant. But, the articles do well illustrate the complexity of using longevity as a sole determinant of quality in measuring the healthcare delivery system. They do not blame the healthcare delivery system for the poor result. So, I learned something here by going a bit deeper. Thank you.

    These studies, however, do not lead anyone to the conclusion that the US has the BEST healthcare in the world. They merely suggest that our life expectancy is shorter for complex reasons. At best, they make the argument that our healthcare results are not as ugly as portrayed. They never address the high cost of delivery, hence the efficiency thereof. At best, the conclusion might be that the US delivery system “Costs more, does the same”… if so, it is still one of the most inefficient systems in the industrial world.

    You, OTH, went even bolder than to argue that are system wasn’t bad; you asserted that we are “ the world leader in healthcare performance” Sorry, while you refuted the facts that held the claim that we were as bad as #37 (WHO rankings), you offered ZERO evidence that we were the best. It appears you logic is that if we are not #37 then we must be #1. Clean that one up or back down as the prevailing evidence is that the US system is, at best, OK.

    Now, my major point on the weakness of the healthcare system is the lack of access. The fact that 48 million people (pre ACA) have no access to healthcare is a significant contributing factor. You can’t have 1/6 of your population outside the system and claim it’s a great delivery system. Now, to me that seems axiomatic.... but I like to back up what I say.

    New study finds 45,000 deaths annually linked to lack of health coverage | Harvard Gazette
    Access to Health Care
    http://www.kff.org/uninsured/upload/1420-14.pdf
    Last edited by upsideguy; 02-07-13 at 10:20 AM.

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