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Thread: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    We could get into the utility of open speech and freedom, but not every right can or should be reduced to a utilitarian equation. Freedom of speech is valuable because it is total unfettered sovereignty of thought and expression, and I and many others, believe it is the fundamental freedom that one can have.
    When the right to say something is totally fettered by the total control of the ability to have something heard resting on the whim of a tiny oligarchy, the sovereignty of thought and expression is an illusion.
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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    The issue of Federal recognition of the relationship between same sex couples could have been resolved long ago if the LGBT "community" was not insistant on changing the definition of a word.

    Because that has been the approach, it's clear the issue is not about fairness and rights, but about politics and position.

    That's a shame.
    Seriously? Since when does the definition of a word belong to any group? The ultra-right wing acts as if the definition of word is so sacred without recognizing the hypocrisy that it has changed numerous times throughout the course of history.

    And you are wrong in your claim as well. The ONLY reason why people have come around on the "civil unions" issue is due to the reality that gay marriage is staring them in the face. The very same people that are all of a sudden ok with civil unions are the same ones that were fighting tooth and nail against them a decade ago. Sorry...but too little too late. Gay marriage will soon be the law of the land...not because of politics and position, but because it is a basic human right and the right thing to do. The United States is late to the game, but ultimately they will get it right.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Seriously? Since when does the definition of a word belong to any group? The ultra-right wing acts as if the definition of word is so sacred without recognizing the hypocrisy that it has changed numerous times throughout the course of history.

    And you are wrong in your claim as well. The ONLY reason why people have come around on the "civil unions" issue is due to the reality that gay marriage is staring them in the face. The very same people that are all of a sudden ok with civil unions are the same ones that were fighting tooth and nail against them a decade ago. Sorry...but too little too late. Gay marriage will soon be the law of the land...not because of politics and position, but because it is a basic human right and the right thing to do. The United States is late to the game, but ultimately they will get it right.
    It's ironic and amusing that those who seem so horrified by the phenomenon of Political Correctness want to control the meanings of words according to their political perspective.
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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    The issues of fairness and rights are perhaps define the key political positions of modern western society. That's like saying, "If only we could leave the issue of taxation out of the debate about political economics.
    Ok.

    And?

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Seriously? Since when does the definition of a word belong to any group? The ultra-right wing acts as if the definition of word is so sacred without recognizing the hypocrisy that it has changed numerous times throughout the course of history.


    And you are wrong in your claim as well. The ONLY reason why people have come around on the "civil unions" issue is due to the reality that gay marriage is staring them in the face. The very same people that are all of a sudden ok with civil unions are the same ones that were fighting tooth and nail against them a decade ago. Sorry...but too little too late. Gay marriage will soon be the law of the land...not because of politics and position, but because it is a basic human right and the right thing to do. The United States is late to the game, but ultimately they will get it right.

    You fail to recognize the issue because your argument continues to focus on the definition of a word, not the recognition the Federal Government grants as a result of the action. When do you want to benefit from the results, rather than fight a battle over the word?

    Why are you complaining about people claiming they don't care about the issue? Get together, sign a license, commingle assets.

    Again, the only reason this continues to be an issue is because the LGBT community can't stand to let the word "marriage" mean what it does.

    Fact.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    The issue of Federal recognition of the relationship between same sex couples could have been resolved long ago if the LGBT "community" was not insistant on changing the definition of a word.

    Because that has been the approach, it's clear the issue is not about fairness and rights, but about politics and position.

    That's a shame.
    The meanings of words change. In fact the meaning of marriage itself has changed.

    And yes it is about fairness and equal rights. You cant create a separate government institution and call it equal.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    We could get into the utility of open speech and freedom, but not every right can or should be reduced to a utilitarian equation.
    I think that's rather his point. Gay marriage is fundamentally about the inclusion of homosexuals in civil life and the institutions that hold our society together-- is that not valuable for its own sake?

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    You fail to recognize the issue because your argument continues to focus on the definition of a word, not the recognition the Federal Government grants as a result of the action. When do you want to benefit from the results, rather than fight a battle over the word?

    Why are you complaining about people claiming they don't care about the issue? Get together, sign a license, commingle assets.

    Again, the only reason this continues to be an issue is because the LGBT community can't stand to let the word "marriage" mean what it does.

    Fact.
    Just like inter-racial couples were not content to let the word marriage mean what it meant?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Ok.

    And?
    And so that contradicts your assertion that the issue is not about fairness and rights. That's exactly what this is about.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    I think that's rather his point. Gay marriage is fundamentally about the inclusion of homosexuals in civil life and the institutions that hold our society together-- is that not valuable for its own sake?
    No gay marriage is about the right of the Individual to define and control their own "personal" life.

    Kinda goes down the route of the core Conservative principle, doesn't it?
    Waste no more time arguing what a good man should be. Be one.
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