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Thread: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    True...but it is still sad to see the rest of the world passing us up. The United States is no longer the country that enjoys the most freedom in the world in many areas.
    That's fine. Most Americans don't deserve the amount of Freedom and Liberty they enjoy right now. Most deserve considerably LESS than they have right now.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    True...but it is still sad to see the rest of the world passing us up. The United States is no longer the country that enjoys the most freedom in the world in many areas.
    The issue of Federal recognition of the relationship between same sex couples could have been resolved long ago if the LGBT "community" was not insistant on changing the definition of a word.

    Because that has been the approach, it's clear the issue is not about fairness and rights, but about politics and position.

    That's a shame.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    The issue of Federal recognition of the relationship between same sex couples could have been resolved long ago if the LGBT "community" was not insistant on changing the definition of a word.

    Because that has been the approach, it's clear the issue is not about fairness and rights, but about politics and position.

    That's a shame.
    And as such those that have been fighting to have marriage just between a man and a woman have proven all they care about it politics and position.

    That's a shame.

    See, it works both ways.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    That's fine. Most Americans don't deserve the amount of Freedom and Liberty they enjoy right now. Most deserve considerably LESS than they have right now.
    I agree, you deserve less freedom than you have now.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    And as such those that have been fighting to have marriage just between a man and a woman have proven all they care about it politics and position.

    That's a shame.

    See, it works both ways.
    No it doesn't.

    Obviously, the majority of the people in this country are very firm about maintaining the meaning of the word "marriage". One of the most liberal/progressive states in the United States passed a Constitutional Amendment to maintain the definition of that word. That it has been battled out in the courts is meaningless. The point is it was passed.

    This issue would be over today if the LGBT "community" wanted it to be. They don't. They want the definition of a word changed period.

    You think it's a big win to have a state call it "marriage"? That's nothing. The big issue is federal rights. Social Security, taxation, property ownership, inheritance, etc, etc.

    That comes from the Federal Government, and that recognition isn't even close.

    This is an in your face political power play by LGBT groups, and has nothing to do with providing the same government recognized rights for same sex couples as currently exists for heterosexual couples.

    That is an irrefutable fact, and that is a shame.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I think the US is still the most free country in most respects, especially regarding speech and expression.
    Of what intrinsic value is the right of free speech, in and of itself? Yet to some people it appears to validate an entire political culture.
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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    The issue of Federal recognition of the relationship between same sex couples could have been resolved long ago if the LGBT "community" was not insistant on changing the definition of a word.

    Because that has been the approach, it's clear the issue is not about fairness and rights, but about politics and position.

    That's a shame.
    The issues of fairness and rights are perhaps define the key political positions of modern western society. That's like saying, "If only we could leave the issue of taxation out of the debate about political economics.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Of what intrinsic value is the right of free speech, in and of itself? Yet to some people it appears to validate an entire political culture.
    We could get into the utility of open speech and freedom, but not every right can or should be reduced to a utilitarian equation. Freedom of speech is valuable because it is total unfettered sovereignty of thought and expression, and I and many others, believe it is the fundamental freedom that one can have.

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I think the US is still the most free country in most respects, especially regarding speech and expression. I also think our system doesn't get enough credit, on the aggregate we've led on abortion, gay marriage, speech, etc. Sometimes its come down on a national level, sometimes making its way through the states. We're a much more progressive country than we get credit for, and have led Europe quite often.
    Not any more. We have fallen way behind many countries even in the realms of free speech and expression, and so much of the world is passing us by on human rights issues.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not any more. We have fallen way behind many countries even in the realms of free speech and expression, and so much of the world is passing us by on human rights issues.
    I don't think that is true at all. Especially with regards to free speech I think the US is far and away the leader. We remain one of the few Western countries to remain unbowed in the face of Hate Speech, Racial Incitement, and Intolerance speech codes, not to mention strict obstructions to libel and slander suits. This is where I think the ACLU has done a fantastic job of keeping in the public eye.

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