Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 113

Thread: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

  1. #101
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective-J View Post
    i know you think thats the point but its not, why?

    I said Equal rights / civil rights.

    THose dont exist calling it something else
    The argument has centered over a demand to change the definition of the word marriage. It has not been about civil or equal rights.

    If it were about civil/equal rights, this matter would have been put to bed long ago.

  2. #102
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Pittsburgh
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    44,771

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    1.)The argument has centered over a demand to change the definition of the word marriage. 2.) It has not been about civil or equal rights.

    If it were about civil/equal rights, this matter would have been put to bed long ago.
    1.) false, whos definition? whos is it based on?
    2.) false
    3.) false again, way in your OPINION do you think it would have been over
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
    Pro-Equal Rights / Pro-Gun Rights / Pro-Human Rights / Pro-Choice

  3. #103
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,129

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Of course it's a strawman. The issue has nothing to do with historic racism and bigotry. Getting back to the point of demanding a word be redefined, frankly, I've never understood the "cut off nose in spite of face" approach to issues.

    It seems those seeking such a move become so emotional about it, they begin to assign motives to those who resist the move that don't exist.

    I don't really care what it's called. Call it marriage. I have no problem with that.

    The problem is that tens of millions do have a problem with it.

    As a result, all that is being accomplished is meaningless recognition at some state levels. It's the Federal Government that needs to recognize the action, and that is not going to happen anytime soon given the way it's being approached.
    You couldn't be more wrong. The Federal Government will soon be recognizing gay marriage and it will be the law of the land in every state of this great country. There is no doubt in my mind that when the Supreme Court takes up this issue in a month that they are going to strike down the bans. Even ultra-conservative pundits are saying that it is unlikely, based on the previous weak arguments raised by anti-gay proponenents, that they are going to prevail in the Supreme Court.

    Also...back to your initial post....either a word and a definition are sacred and can never be changed or they can. You can't play it both ways.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #104
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You couldn't be more wrong. The Federal Government will soon be recognizing gay marriage and it will be the law of the land in every state of this great country. There is no doubt in my mind that when the Supreme Court takes up this issue in a month that they are going to strike down the bans. Even ultra-conservative pundits are saying that it is unlikely, based on the previous weak arguments raised by anti-gay proponenents, that they are going to prevail in the Supreme Court.

    Also...back to your initial post....either a word and a definition are sacred and can never be changed or they can. You can't play it both ways.
    Has it occurred to you yet, that I support the right of gays who have said vows, signed documents, etc. to be viewed exactly the same way by the Federal Goverment that heterosexual couples are?

    Have you seen in my words that I think this should have happened long ago?

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me you haven't.

  5. #105
    Sage
    disneydude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    25,129

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Has it occurred to you yet, that I support the right of gays who have said vows, signed documents, etc. to be viewed exactly the same way by the Federal Goverment that heterosexual couples are?

    Have you seen in my words that I think this should have happened long ago?

    Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me you haven't.
    No....I definitely caught that...but just because you are supportive doesn't change the fact that you are trying to argue both sides of the sacred definition issue.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  6. #106
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,335
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    LOL. Well, if you doubt the claim, prove it wrong...............

    So let's see, "even if the institution you create has the exact same benefits and rights it still won't be equal" - because of a word.

    People seem to be very adament about that word remaining defined the way it is. You're doing nothing but prove the point I have been making.

    It's not about the benefits, it's about victory over a word.
    Look. If you make a claim you should be prepared to back it up. Otherwise youve got nothing. So until you show me the poll your talking about youve got nothing.

    Yes if you create a separate institution with the same rights and benefits as another it still isnt equal. Separate is not equal. So this is about equality.

  7. #107
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    Look. If you make a claim you should be prepared to back it up. Otherwise youve got nothing. So until you show me the poll your talking about youve got nothing.

    Yes if you create a separate institution with the same rights and benefits as another it still isnt equal. Separate is not equal. So this is about equality.

    Be prepared to refute it, or leave it alone. You don't think polls exist, prove it.

    Exactly what separate institution are you refering to?

    The issue involves a word, not an institution.

  8. #108
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,335
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    Be prepared to refute it, or leave it alone. You don't think polls exist, prove it.

    Exactly what separate institution are you refering to?

    The issue involves a word, not an institution.
    How am I supposed to show if it exists or not if I dont even know what poll your exactly talking about? The burden of proof is on you here. You made the claim you present the poll or else you have nothing.

    Marriage is a word yes but its a word that describes an institution. And your saying that same sex couples cannot take part in it. So the only way you could possibly extend the same rights and privileges to same sex couples is by creating a separate institution such as civil unions. And separate is not equal so those institutions would be unequal even if they had the exact same rights and privileges.

  9. #109
    Sage

    ocean515's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Southern California
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    24,705

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by Omgitsme View Post
    How am I supposed to show if it exists or not if I dont even know what poll your exactly talking about? The burden of proof is on you here. You made the claim you present the poll or else you have nothing.

    Marriage is a word yes but its a word that describes an institution. And your saying that same sex couples cannot take part in it. So the only way you could possibly extend the same rights and privileges to same sex couples is by creating a separate institution such as civil unions. And separate is not equal so those institutions would be unequal even if they had the exact same rights and privileges.
    How can you demand I prove something about a poll, when you don't even know what the poll is about? How about we just drop the point? You're admitted you have nothing, and I don't really care about the poll.

    As to your second point about the word "Marriage". It would seem the majority of people believe the word "Marriage" describes an action taken between a man and a woman. The demand that this be thrown away is the reason this issue remains so contentious.

  10. #110
    Guru

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Illinois
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:21 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    3,335
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Gay marriage: MPs debate and vote, The Ayes have it!

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    How can you demand I prove something about a poll, when you don't even know what the poll is about? How about we just drop the point? You're admitted you have nothing, and I don't really care about the poll.

    As to your second point about the word "Marriage". It would seem the majority of people believe the word "Marriage" describes an action taken between a man and a woman. The demand that this be thrown away is the reason this issue remains so contentious.
    I never said I didnt know what the poll is about. You told me what the poll is about remember? I just dont know what poll your talking about. I have never admitted that I have nothing. You claimed that the poll showed that the pro SSM crowd is more interested in the word then equality and I just wanted you to prove it. But if you want to drop it then fine.

    It doesnt matter what the majority of people think the word marriage means. That doesnt address my point at all.

Page 11 of 12 FirstFirst ... 9101112 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •