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Thread: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the legal opinion describes that criteria


    no. this is a military action. the opinion establishes that, thus eliminating civil/criminal process from being compelled


    not unless you believe police state = military action. the opinion rendered the conclusion that an enemny remains a viable military target no matter where the individual's place of birth
    that there is such disagreement as is found in this thread evidences the need for such an opinion


    no. because the opinion establishes this to be a military action. there is no need for judicial involvement because the targeting of the enemy in a military action is not something that is taken up judicially
    the congress still is responsible for any declaration of war and/or appropriations needed to proceed with any military action, but they have no other investment in the military action which resulted in the targeting of an enemy combatant






    The FBI actually considers peaceful protests to be a form of terrorism. (Banks Deeply Involved in FBI-Coordinated Suppression of “Terrorist” Occupy Wall Street « naked capitalism) (Pentagon Exam Calls Protests 'Low-Level Terrorism,' Angering Activists | Fox News) (ACLU Challenges Defense Department Personnel Policy To Regard Lawful Protests As)


    [/QUOTE]

    1. So just because it's a military option, my civil liberties go out the window?

    2. I just showed that a US citizen was killed via drone by Obama and you are still trying to say that its a military action?

    3. Define the term "enemy combatant." That's the exact same language the Bush used.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    White House Press Secretary Jay Carney told reporters Thursday that the Obama administration will not be releasing any more information about the controversial use of drones to kill American citizens.



    This is not an open-ended process. This is a specific and unique accommodation in this circumstance. The fact is, when it comes to public disclosure, we have been — not with the kind of attention that’s been given it this week — but we have been publicly discussing these matters at the highest levels of government for the very reason that I’ve given, which is the President understands that these are core issues about how we conduct ourselves in war, how the President of the United States — any President — balances his constitutional obligation to protect America and American citizens, and his obligation to do so in a manner that is lawful under the Constitution and reflects our values.

    Read more: White House: No more drone killings information will be released | The Daily Caller


    Seems Obama wants only so much Transparency.....huh?


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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    Quote Originally Posted by Krhazy View Post
    Not their due process rights, no. They might be civilly/criminally liable for other reasons, though, and the police department might have been negligent in hiring or failing to train/supervise the person.

    Um, didn't say that. Pretty sure I said it depends on the circumstances. We are talking about a very specific set of circumstances here. If you want to generalize wildly and come up with sweeping rules to cover every possible situation (but are the most appropriate for none) that's your prerogative, but I have no interest in that.

    How about we both strawman until we are to the point of sending drones to kill the cute kitten next door because it's making your daughter jealous of the neighbor? What do you say?
    Amendment VI

    In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
    I don't see where that says anything about "circumstances."

    And what is the difference between taking out suspects in Yemen, and taking them out in East LA the same way? It seems to me a small step.
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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    I don't see where that says anything about "circumstances."
    You were talking about due process. If you want to talk about the sixth amendment and criminal prosecutions, I discussed in a previous post why that doesn't apply to this situation, and others have as well.

    And what is the difference between taking out suspects in Yemen, and taking them out in East LA the same way? It seems to me a small step.
    The humongous difference is that the US has a limited ability and authority to act in Yemen. There are far more options for how to deal with a suspected terrorist living in LA than there are for one living in Yemen. For example, it would be a whole lot easier to bring somebody in for trial if he was hiding out in LA than if he was hiding out in Yemen.

    I definitely agree that the default should always be arrest and try. The question is what happens when arresting and trying someone is not feasible?
    Last edited by Cameron; 02-07-13 at 04:08 PM.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    The only way I would even rationally consider this is if it were strictly restricted for known gang members/gang leaders.

    Great idea. Further, Deadly drone strikes would be an excellent way to wipe out the Mexican drug cartels, both in Mexico and the United States. They would have to be controlled by Americans so that the remote drone operators couldn't be bribed.
    Last edited by Ray410; 02-07-13 at 03:59 PM.

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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans - Open Channel



    How far can the government go? What happens if they find that this situation within the continental US? Where could this go?
    As an ex-military man I would have a problem with it. I took an oath to defend this country against all enemies, foreign and domestic.
    This Reform Party member thinks it is high past time that we start electing Americans to congress and the presidency who put America first and their political party further down the line. But for way too long we have been electing Republicans and Democrats who happen to be Americans instead of Americans who happen to be Republicans and Democrats.

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    Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    Great idea. Further, Deadly drone strikes would be an excellent way to wipe out the Mexican drug cartels, both in Mexico and the United States. They would have to be controlled by Americans so that the remote drone operators couldn't be bribed.
    So the Judge Dredd approach of Judge, Jury and executioner all rolled up. Full and complete power to the government to decide who lives or dies with no due process only what the government decides.

    Sorry, I spent 10 years of my life, went to war for my country and actually believe in that so called out dated document and value the oath I took.
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    Re: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans

    Oh, a liberal city is the first to revolt against the Obama Justice Department---Succession must be afoot in the Ye Olde Dominion.....


    City in Virginia Becomes First to Pass Anti-Drone Legislation - US News and World Report

    Charlottesville, Va., has become the first city in the United States to formally pass an anti-drone resolution.

    The resolution, passed Monday, "calls on the United States Congress and the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia to adopt legislation prohibiting information obtained from the domestic use of drones from being introduced into a Federal or State court," and "pledges to abstain from similar uses with city-owned, leased, or borrowed drones."

    The resolution passed by a 3-2 vote and was brought to the city council by activist David Swanson and the Rutherford Institute, a civil liberties group based in the city. The measure also endorses a proposed two-year moratorium on drones in Virginia.

    Councilmember Dede Smith, who voted in favor of the bill, says that drones are "pretty clearly a threat to our constitutional right to privacy."

    "If we don't get out ahead of it to establish some guidelines for how drones are used, they will be used in a very invasive way and we'll be left to try and pick up the pieces," she says.

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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    1. So just because it's a military option, my civil liberties go out the window?
    if you serve as an enemy combatant with forces against the United States, yes, kiss your ass goodbye

    2. I just showed that a US citizen was killed via drone by Obama and you are still trying to say that its a military action?
    did the USA have reason to believe that person was an enemy combatant or was a collateral casualty resulting from a military action, then that person's demise was militarily legitimate. as the opinion tells us

    3. Define the term "enemy combatant." That's the exact same language the Bush used.
    the opinion identifies the criteria which must be in effect for one to be found a military drone target
    you will find the three criteria within the first paragraph at this cite:
    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...hite_Paper.pdf
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    Re: EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americ

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    if you serve as an enemy combatant with forces against the United States, yes, kiss your ass goodbye


    did the USA have reason to believe that person was an enemy combatant or was a collateral casualty resulting from a military action, then that person's demise was militarily legitimate. as the opinion tells us


    the opinion identifies the criteria which must be in effect for one to be found a military drone target
    you will find the three criteria within the first paragraph at this cite:
    http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/se...hite_Paper.pdf
    Once again, you bought up the term "enemy combatant." Please define it.
    "And in the end, we were all just humans, drunk on the idea that love, only love, could heal our brokenness."

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