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University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Grant said:
Bring them together into what? Do they want to be brought together? Are they in training to be sheep?
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That's an ironic choice of phrase in the context of a thread about a Christian organisation.

I'm suggesting exactly the opposite. Without the social aspects at University, a student might only ever see the people they're living with and the people on their course. The social clubs and societies are supported by Universities to encourage students on different courses, maybe even at different sites, to interact as part of the University as a whole. In my opinion, I think this would be better served by clubs open to anyone interested in joining, unifying rather than divisive.

That isn't to say I don't think Christians (or indeed anyone else) shouldn't form exclusive clubs, societies or churches, only that I'm not sure whether that kind of organisation is as much benefit to the University as a whole.

Grant said:
So the University is all for diversity as long as the students are 'brought together'. When political correctness becomes policy, the contradictions become ever creepier.
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My personal opinion has absolutely nothing to do with this Universities policy. I guess it was my fault from trying to inject a little wider philosophy in to the discussion.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Tucker Case said:
The logistics are working that way perfectly.



You see something imaginary, though.



I get it perfectly. You haven't done any research (as you have admitted), you don't actually know what you are talking about (as you have demonstrated) but because this is a Christian group, you've decided that, based upon this foundation of ignorance alone you can claim that there has been some disservice done to them.



Oh snap! You're a poe, aren't you?



We don't have that. That's all a product of the paranoid imaginings of those who have not employed logic to the situation in any way.



Absolutely. But the big question is if you have any comprehension of how goddamn imaginary it is?
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Lets cut the bull**** and lets get to the meat of the issue.

Why the **** do you believe PUBLIC universities should have the right to regulate clubs?

Why the **** do you believe a Christian club should have non-Christian leadership?

Explain those two questions to me and you may not be the first on my ban list.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Nice, 51 responses to my posts....

Gee, I must be popular today.

Un****ingbelivable
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
I mean they're only saying "your christian club needs a non-christian to play a leadership role."
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They're not saying that at all. They're saying you can't, by your rules, deny them the CHANCE to potentially gain a leadership role. They are in no way saying that they NEED to have a non-christian in a leadership role
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
Lets cut the bull**** and lets get to the meat of the issue.
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By cut the bull**** you mean ignore all the bull**** you've made up and fabricated throughout this entire thread so that you can try to successfully change the subject and get the attention off your idiotic statements? Sure.

Why the **** do you believe PUBLIC universities should have the right to regulate clubs?
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They shouldn't, unless the club is wanting to be OFFICIALLY recognized by the university and gain privledges under such a recnognition. At which point, the University should have the right to reasonably place upon regulations to a club in the interest of best utilizing school funds, best serving the student body, and best protecting the University from any legal liability just as the University would have the right to regulate the rules of the dorms on their campus, the sports teams that play under its name, the academic code of conduct, etc.

Why the **** do you believe a Christian club should have non-Christian leadership?
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Tucker doesn't believe a Christian Club should have non-christian leaderhsip. I don't believe it. There's no evidence MICHIGAN believes it. The only thing being stated is they shouldn't have a rule strictly forbidding that from happening. I don't believe there needs to be a law on the book specifically making "spitting on the sidewalk" illegal as there is in some locations, but that doesn't mean I believe people should have to spit on the sidewalk.

Mr.Nick said:
Nice, 51 responses to my posts....

Gee, I must be popular today.

Un****ingbelivable
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Yes, stupid arguments and repeated fabrication of facts tends to invoke a lot of responses as people do so love calling people out when they're obviously ignorant of the topic at hand.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Zyphlin said:
They're not saying that at all. They're saying you can't, by your rules, deny them the CHANCE to potentially gain a leadership role. They are in no way saying that they NEED to have a non-christian in a leadership role
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Why the **** would a non-Christian be interested in a Christian club?

I'm a Christian and I would have no desire to join a Christian club.

Apparently the whole "not a christian" idea is going over your head.

I have no desire to continue this debate if you don't realize that individuals joining organizations in which they share no faith with is downright stupid.


BTW, I understand your point but you apparently don't understand mine.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Zyphlin said:
By cut the bull**** you mean ignore all the bull**** you've made up and fabricated throughout this entire thread so that you can try to successfully change the subject and get the attention off your idiotic statements? Sure.



They shouldn't, unless the club is wanting to be OFFICIALLY recognized by the university and gain privledges under such a recnognition. At which point, the University should have the right to reasonably place upon regulations to a club in the interest of best utilizing school funds, best serving the student body, and best protecting the University from any legal liability just as the University would have the right to regulate the rules of the dorms on their campus, the sports teams that play under its name, the academic code of conduct, etc.



Tucker doesn't believe a Christian Club should have non-christian leaderhsip. I don't believe it. There's no evidence MICHIGAN believes it. The only thing being stated is they shouldn't have a rule strictly forbidding that from happening. I don't believe there needs to be a law on the book specifically making "spitting on the sidewalk" illegal as there is in some locations, but that doesn't mean I believe people should have to spit on the sidewalk.



Yes, stupid arguments and repeated fabrication of facts tends to invoke a lot of responses as people do so love calling people out when they're obviously ignorant of the topic at hand.
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I suppose we have a winner.

Late...

Oh I suppose I cant put a mod on ignore... Sucks to be me, I suppose I have to read irrelevant bull**** and argue now.
 
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Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
Why the **** do you believe PUBLIC universities should have the right to regulate clubs?
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They don't have a right to regulate clubs, they have a right to decide what clubs they wish to sponsor. Where the **** did you get the stupid idea that that means they have a right to regulate clubs in general from? That's just silly.

Why the **** do you believe a Christian club should have non-Christian leadership?
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Where on Earth did you get the phenomenally stupid idea that I want that from? I don't give a **** who they elect as their leadership.

Explain those two questions to me and you may not be the first on my ban list.
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Hah! You're going to ignore me because I disagree with you and point out the flaws in your positions?!?!? That's ****ing hilarious. Have at it. :lol:
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
Lets cut the bull**** and lets get to the meat of the issue.

Why the **** do you believe PUBLIC universities should have the right to regulate clubs?

Why the **** do you believe a Christian club should have non-Christian leadership?

Explain those two questions to me and you may not be the first on my ban list.
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It has been explained to you repeatedly.

Both questions have been answered.

1) Public universities aren't "regulating clubs." They have an established set of rules for clubs that they officially recognize at the university. Anybody can have a club independent of that.

2) Faulty question. Nobody said a Christian club "should" have non-Christian leadership.

Both of these things have been said NUMEROUS TIMES. Put yourself on ignore.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Deuce said:
It has been explained to you repeatedly.

Both questions have been answered.

1) Public universities aren't "regulating clubs." They have an established set of rules for clubs that they officially recognize at the university. Anybody can have a club independent of that.

2) Faulty question. Nobody said a Christian club "should" have non-Christian leadership.

Both of these things have been said NUMEROUS TIMES. Put yourself on ignore.
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Rules are regulations.. The words are interchangeable.

Sad I have to point this out.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
Why the **** would a non-Christian be interested in a Christian club?
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Perhaps they were interested in learning more about Christianity? Perhaps they liked the feeling of fellowship, or perhaps the general message, even if they didn't actually believe in god? Is it likely? Not really. But it's also inconsiquential to THIS situation and whether or not there was wrong doing or "bias" on the part of the University like YOU claimed.

I'm a Christian and I would have no desire to join a Christian club.
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Good for you, this is irrelevant to the story. Then again, almost EVERYTHING you've posted has been irrelevant to the story because you've been debating an imaginary situation you've fabricated in your mind.

Apparently the whole "not a christian" idea is going over your head.
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Apparently the whole "The rules were evenly applied so there was not 'Bias' on the part of the school" is going over your head. Apparently the whole "They weren't removed because they were Christian, like you said, but because their rules specifically forbid participation based on religion which is against the rules THEY agreed to" is going over your head. Apparently the whole "A university sanctioned club agrees to rule to gain the benefits of being sanctioned, and they willingly CHOOSE to violate those rules" is going over your head. Apparently the whole "being against forbidding membership is not the same as stating membership is needed" thing is going over your head.

I have no desire to continue this debate if you don't realize that individuals joining organizations in which they share no faith with is downright stupid.
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FOR ****S SAKE

Zyphlin said:
Very few people would [join a christian club if they're not christian], which is why there's no significant need to have it in writing that leadership must be Christian
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Zyphlin said:
Will non-Christians likely join the clubs? Probably not. Just like it's unlikely a black guy will join an Asian American club or a white guy would join a Traditionally Black Fraternity.
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Zyphlin said:
it DOESN'T actually stop the club from only having Christian leadership, and the University went out of their way to basically tell them as muchWho said it NEEDS non-christians? It doesn't NEED it. There's no requirement that they have a non-christian in the club. The only requirement is that if someone is interested in joining they can't be BARRED from joining or being in leadership.
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Zyphlin said:
NO ONE is saying that a club can't make sure leadership doesn't contradict the clubs ideas...The majority of people on this thread acknowledge, and many even support, the notion that a black clubs leadership is almost aways going to be black...a muslim clubs leadership is almost always going to be muslim...a christians clubs leadership is almost always going to be christian....etc.
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Zyphlin said:
And you're not likely to be voted into leadership in a communist club as a capitalist. You're not likely to be voted into leadership in a muslim club as a christian. You're not likely to be voted into leadership in a black club if yo'ure white. I've said that REPEATEDLY in this thread, so have others.

That's common sense, that's what would happen without any actual written rule in their constitution what so ever. That's even what the University basically tacitly acknowledged when they suggested the club take the wording out of their bylaws and continue along on their normal path.
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Zyphlin said:
It's realistic and common sense to expect that a Christian club is probably not going to have non-christian leadership, just as its common sense and realistic that you're not going to expect to see a white president of a traditionally black fraternity.

I'm with Tucker in the notion that the zero-tolerance type policies like this without a bit of leeway for common sense are rather dumb.
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Seriously...are you creating imaginary posts in your head to go with your imaginary story you've been arguing about, because it's now pretty clear you've not actually bothered reading and responding to what I've actually said.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Tucker Case said:
They don't have a right to regulate clubs, they have a right to decide what clubs they wish to sponsor. Where the **** did you get the stupid idea that that means they have a right to regulate clubs in general from? That's just silly.



Where on Earth did you get the phenomenally stupid idea that I want that from? I don't give a **** who they elect as their leadership.



Hah! You're going to ignore me because I disagree with you and point out the flaws in your positions?!?!? That's ****ing hilarious. Have at it. :lol:
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Sorry If I'm too fair...

No they don't have the choice - it's a STATE UNIVERSITY not a private school.

If they're gong to recognize one they have the obligation to recognize the other.

Do I really have to explain my position as if you were a 5-year-old?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
Sorry If I'm too fair...

No they don't have the choice - it's a STATE UNIVERSITY not a private school.

If they're gong to recognize one they have the obligation to recognize the other.

Do I really have to explain my position as if you were a 5-year-old?
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Since it is a state school, they have to follow non-discrimination policies set forth by the government or they won't get government support. Hence, they have to enforce that through the clubs.

So no, they don't have to recognize every club, if one of those clubs goes against the school's policies, which follow the state's policies.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
Sorry If I'm too fair...

No they don't have the choice - it's a STATE UNIVERSITY not a private school.

If they're gong to recognize one they have the obligation to recognize the other.

Do I really have to explain my position as if you were a 5-year-old?
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They have to recognize my human sacrifice cult?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
Sorry If I'm too fair...
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Wait, what exactly do you think "fair" means?

No they don't have the choice - it's a STATE UNIVERSITY not a private school.
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where did you get that silly idea from?

If they're gong to recognize one they have the obligation to recognize the other.
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And they recognize all groups which abide by the rules set forth for recognition. This group did not abide by those rules. Why should they get special treatment, which is what you are asking for them to receive.

Do I really have to explain my position as if you were a 5-year-old?
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Wow! Even five year olds have been able to systematically expose the logical flaws in your positions?!?!? Why don't you improve your positions, then?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Zyphlin said:
Perhaps they were interested in learning more about Christianity? Perhaps they liked the feeling of fellowship, or perhaps the general message, even if they didn't actually believe in god? Is it likely? Not really. But it's also inconsiquential to THIS situation and whether or not there was wrong doing or "bias" on the part of the University like YOU claimed.



Good for you, this is irrelevant to the story. Then again, almost EVERYTHING you've posted has been irrelevant to the story because you've been debating an imaginary situation you've fabricated in your mind.



Apparently the whole "The rules were evenly applied so there was not 'Bias' on the part of the school" is going over your head. Apparently the whole "They weren't removed because they were Christian, like you said, but because their rules specifically forbid participation based on religion which is against the rules THEY agreed to" is going over your head. Apparently the whole "A university sanctioned club agrees to rule to gain the benefits of being sanctioned, and they willingly CHOOSE to violate those rules" is going over your head. Apparently the whole "being against forbidding membership is not the same as stating membership is needed" thing is going over your head.



FOR ****S SAKE













Seriously...are you creating imaginary posts in your head to go with your imaginary story you've been arguing about, because it's now pretty clear you've not actually bothered reading and responding to what I've actually said.
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When I want to learn about a topic I buy a book or go to the internet - I don't join a club. I studied Islam for 10 years and never did I step foot in a Mosque. I know more about Islam than most Most Muslims but you don't see me joining clubs.

May as well let a socialist takeover the libertarian movement just so they can have a ****ing "experience."
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
When I want to learn about a topic I buy a book or go to the internet - I don't join a club. I studied Islam for 10 years and never did I step foot in a Mosque. I know more about Islam than most Most Muslims but you don't see me joining clubs.

May as well let a socialist takeover the libertarian movement just so they can have a ****ing "experience."
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You buy a book. So it's just ridiculous that anyone else would want to, I don't know, talk to people? Ok dude.

As for taking over the group... that hasn't happened. Why do you think that has happened? If you were in a Christian club, would you vote for a non-Christian leader?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
When I want to learn about a topic I buy a book or go to the internet - I don't join a club. I studied Islam for 10 years and never did I step foot in a Mosque. I know more about Islam than most Most Muslims but you don't see me joining clubs.
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Ah, so if I read The God Delusion by Dawkins, read the bible, and go on to some Atheist-run websites about Christianity for the next ten years, I can claim to understand Christianity better than most Christians. Gotcha. :lol:
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Tucker Case said:
Ah, so if I read The God Delusion by Dawkins and go on to some Atheist-run websites about Christianity for the next ten years, I can claim to understand Christianity better than Christians. Gotcha. :lol:
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God forbid (rimshot) that you actually want to talk to people on the subject. I DONT LEARN THINGS BY TALKING TO PEOPLE WHO KNOW THE SUBJECT, DAMNIT, I HAVE THE INTERNET!
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Deuce said:
They have to recognize my human sacrifice cult?
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To me this has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a bunch of assholes singling out a group and demonizing them..

My anger is directed at those who are biased or racist.
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
My anger is directed at those who are biased or racist.
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So why aren't you angry at this club for being biased against non-christians in leadership roles?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
To me this has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a bunch of assholes singling out a group and demonizing them..

My anger is directed at those who are biased or racist.
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"Singled out" for a violation of the rules because they are the single group that for some reason can't follow a simple, cosmetic rule change.

Should the university violate federal law because this one group thinks the rules don't apply to it? Who is the asshole again?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
To me this has absolutely nothing to do with religion and everything to do with a bunch of assholes singling out a group and demonizing them..

My anger is directed at those who are biased or racist.
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How are they singling out a group, when they are applying this to ALL groups?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Mr.Nick said:
When I want to learn about a topic I buy a book or go to the internet - I don't join a club. I studied Islam for 10 years and never did I step foot in a Mosque. I know more about Islam than most Most Muslims but you don't see me joining clubs.

May as well let a socialist takeover the libertarian movement just so they can have a ****ing "experience."
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LOL, did you stay at a Holiday Inn too?
 
Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

Tucker Case said:
Ah, so if I read The God Delusion by Dawkins, read the bible, and go on to some Atheist-run websites about Christianity for the next ten years, I can claim to understand Christianity better than most Christians. Gotcha. :lol:
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You didn't need to tell me that Dawkins was the author of the "God Delusion" and no, I could care less what people post on the internet.

I just think it is rude at best that a Christian club is not recognized, while other clubs are, and no one has given me a good reason as to why other than "rules" or "policy" which both don't exactly shake my tree.

I want a better reason than that...
 
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