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Thread: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

  1. #21
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    So much fun reading stuff from some of those who proudly post their ignorance

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1371.pdf

    Several benefits attend this school-approved status, including the use of school funds, facilities, and channels of communication, as well as Hastings’ name and logo. In exchange for recognition, RSOs must abide by certain conditions. Critical here, all RSOs must comply with the school’s Nondiscrimination Policy, which tracks state law barring discrimination on a number of bases, includ-ing religion and sexual orientation.
    <snip>
    For example, the Hastings Democratic Caucus cannot bar students holding Republican political beliefs
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Too bad the university can't practice its own policy, and discriminates against an Asian Christian club.....the racist Christian-phobic hypocrites. I think that they should write their representatives and find out how much tax money the university is getting, and work on killing that. They should contact the ACLU.
    I'd sue the university for discrimination. The club would win in a nanosecond.

    "How many clubs are on campus? but the Christians cant have one?" - yeah that would be the nail in the coffin.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    So much fun reading stuff from some of those who proudly post their ignorance
    Are you ****ting me?

    Ignorance is saying a Muslim can have a "club" a gay can have a "club" woman can have a "club" Latinos can have a "club" blacks can have a "club" Latin majors can have a "club" but Christians cant have a club...

    How does it feel to be a blatant hypocrite?

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Gotta agree with you there.

    But yah know I never really understood the need for any of these club things.

    Why not just make friends who are similar to you and hang out...

    What's all the need for these official campus clubs anyway?
    [former frat boy]Getting official recognition as a campus organization, at a typical university, provides the group additional benefits that would likely not exist or be more difficult to get if they were not an official organization. Things like reserving rooms or portions of the campus for meetings and/or events, having an office within the student center where your members could meet to interact or store items, or the ability to advertise for your particular interest group through official channels. While one could definitely just get a group of friends together and hang out, depending on the TYPE of group you're attempting to organize and the TYPE of things you're wanting to do a lot can get facilitated better by becoming an official group[/former frat boy]

    Actually, great example was at my little University a Freshman during my Sophmore year ended up bringing an extra computer and set up a 24/7 Counterstrike server. Before we realized it, the thing had a good 50 to 100 players on campus that were playing somewhat regularly and a handful more that would pop on occasionally. There were a couple of "lets get a bunch of people to meet at the cafeteria" instances and even one, very strange, instance of what can only be described as "flash mob boxing". End of his Freshman year, he got to use one of the multipurpose rooms in his dorm to stuff a bunch of computers in there and we had our first little "LAN party" competition with teams that was largely just a few of us players that heard about it through playing.

    Sophmore year he actually ended up deciding to try and form a "club". By doing so, he managed to convince the guy that ran our IT to let him hold the host machine in the IT offices. Our big tournament that year was actually to be hosted in one of the academic buildings (the main Comp Sci building) on a weekend since Clubs could rent those spaces out. We have each team in it's own computer lab, as well as each having a classroom they could plan things out in before hand. There was a common area in the middle that utilized a large projector screen to display game footage live as people were playing for the other teams and spectators could watch. Because he could now advertise on campus in a more official capacity, we actually ended up getting a team that joined that hadn't even played on the local server and had a few people wander in just for the hell of watching.

    Now granted....if a College just didn't bother with "Clubs" and let any student try and do those type of things they currently let clubs use. But that's part of why, in the current system, people may seek to form an official club.

    As to this SPECIFIC issue...

    Gotta agree with Vik here. I understand the notion and reason for the policy, but a TINY bit of common sense should perhaps be afforded to them.

    That said, this should be pretty simple for the club. You do the same thing Anda talked about a GLBT group could do, or what someone suggested a Woman's group can do.....you make leadership something that's voted on. You don't say "you have to be Christian to hold a leadership spot" but seriously, what non-christian is going to get nominated and voted into leadership of a group dedicated to the celebration of christianity?

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    The rules generally make sense, yes, but they can also be incredibly ****ing stupid if they are applied in a one-size-fits-all manner like this.

    What's next, a fascist in charge of the Anarchy Club? OK, that one would be pretty funny.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    zyphlin concludes a post with the following
    ...a TINY bit of common sense should perhaps be afforded to them.
    but a bit of inside info from a Univ. of Michigan student, seems to show a 'desire' for martyrdom by the xian student group was more important than compliance with published standards for student clubs.
    The Humble Empiricist: Discrimination? Not On My Campus!

    The situation has been framed as a discrimination issue, which is ironic considering what actually happened. Here at the University of Michigan, we have an anti-discrimination policy. It's pretty straightforward; student organizations that are sanctioned by the University must be inclusive to all people regardless of their race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, etc. All of a student organization's policies and activities must adhere to University policy or the University will not recognize them. There are plenty of benefits to being a recognized student organization; RSOs are elligible for funding, facilities and resources from the University that they would otherwise have to provide themselves. Following the rules is a very small price to pay for the sanction that the University provides.

    Enter the InterVarsity Christian fellowship. This Christian student organization on campus had the signing of a statement of faith as a requirement for leadership in the group. It seems obvious that a Christian group would have Christian leadership, but the requirement in black and white that leaders MUST be Christian violated the University's anti-discrimination policy. The University asked them to change their policy and they refused, meaning that they are no longer recognized as a student organization at the University of Michigan. The result is of course a projection of the image of martyrdom.
    <snip>
    Our "Secular Student Association" actually was asked to amend our own constitution last year because it didn't meet University standards. We did so. There is no reason on earth that removing a signed profession of faith from the requirements would hurt the organization. Even if a non-Christian did want to run for office in that club, no one would vote for him/her. The InterVarsity Fellowship's decision to defy their superiors was made out of pure stubbornness. Being reprimanded for not abiding by the same rules as every other group is NOT discrimination.
    Please read the SCOTUS decision I linked to in post #21
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Are you ****ting me?

    Ignorance is saying a Muslim can have a "club" a gay can have a "club" woman can have a "club" Latinos can have a "club" blacks can have a "club" Latin majors can have a "club" but Christians cant have a club...

    How does it feel to be a blatant hypocrite?
    Who said Christians can't have a club?

    Can you provide factual information that there's a Muslim club on that campus that requires that it's leadership be muslim?

    Can you provide factual information that there's a gay club on the campus that requires that it's leadership be gay?

    Can you provide factual information that there's a latino club on campus that requires that it's leadership be latino?

    Can you provide factual information that there's a black club on campus that requires that it's leadership be black?

    Did you know that "traditionally black fraternities" like Omega Psi Phi (You may have seen individuals with an "Omega" symbol branded onto them, they were likely brothers of that fraternity) don't, and can't, have a requirement that their fraternity or their campus leadership must be black?

    While I think the reaction by the school was worthy of an eye roll and a rather ridiculous instance of letting slavish adherance to the rules overcome a bit of common sense, that doesn't change the fact that the situations you're seemingly describing aren't accurate. It wasn't that "christians can't have a club" while others can, it's that the Christians can't make their clubs leadership limited by religion. If you can show that another club has a limitation based on sex, religion, race, etc on that campus then perhaps you'd have a point. Otherwise, you're ranting and raving about nonsense and a situation that exists only in your head.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Are you ****ting me?

    Ignorance is saying a Muslim can have a "club" a gay can have a "club" woman can have a "club" Latinos can have a "club" blacks can have a "club" Latin majors can have a "club" but Christians cant have a club...

    How does it feel to be a blatant hypocrite?
    A Muslim club cannot insist its leader be Muslim, a gay club can't insist it's leader be gay, a women's club can't insist it's leader be female, a latino club cannot insist its leader be latino, a black club cannot insist that it's leader be black, and the Christian club cannot insist that it's leader be Christian.

    The very same non-discrimination rule applies to everyone equally. No one is being persecuted here.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    So much fun reading stuff from some of those who proudly post their ignorance

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Are you ****ting me?

    Ignorance is saying a Muslim can have a "club" a gay can have a "club" woman can have a "club" Latinos can have a "club" blacks can have a "club" Latin majors can have a "club" but Christians cant have a club...

    How does it feel to be a blatant hypocrite?
    I'll just post it again: So much fun reading stuff from some of those who proudly post their ignorance, particularly when I posted a link to a SCOTUS decision that says the xian club wouldn't make it past the district court level if they try to sue the university.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    The University asked them to change their policy and they refused, meaning that they are no longer recognized as a student organization at the University of Michigan. The result is of course a projection of the image of martyrdom.
    In that case, ****'em. The School actually DID use some common sense...rather than immedietely pull their status they basically gave them a clear, obvoius, reasonable out. They all but seemingly said "Change your written rules and you can still black ball any none Christian from ever being in leadership, just don't have that written out" and the group refused. That's a completely reasonable action on the part of a PUBLIC university where you need both equitable and fair enforcement of the rules but also an understanding eye towards the student body. Rather than immedietely punish, you attempt to help get them within policy while changing as little of their groups day to day dealings as possible.

    The fact the group refused removes any sympathy I have for them, what so ever. Suddenly they want to be special and have the ability to do something no other group does. They're not special nor do they magically deserve to be allowed to do something that no other group on campus does. This isn't "discrimination against Christianity", it's a school attempting to enforce it's rules in the least strict way possible and being met by a punch to the face that forced their hand.

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