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Thread: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Uh - yes they do have to allow "non-Christians in".
    No they don't. They can choose to exist without university endorsement. They have that right.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No they don't. They can choose to exist without university endorsement. They have that right.
    OK - you are right. The whole problem here was the club wanting university support without complying with university rules. As long as they don't demand support then they can do what ever they wish.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    I read the entire article, along with a couple of other articles from other sources, and it seems the issue is whether a club at a university should allow equal access to all students instead of a few. While, on the surface, this may seem like a good idea, it is political correctness run amok. For instance, should atheists have the right to be leaders of a Christian organization? Or would it make sense for home economics students to run engineering clubs? Or here's a good one.... How about comedians becoming leaders of the Democratic and Republican clubs on campus? Well, maybe that does make sense, considering all the clowns who ended up in Washington. But the whole point here is that organizations of a specific group should have the right to exclude those who don't belong in that group. If you disagree with me, then let's allow a KKK'er to join a black students' campus group, and then watch all hell break loose.

    In short, the University of Michigan was not targeting a group because they were Christians. U of M was just being stupid.
    Last edited by danarhea; 02-02-13 at 08:34 PM.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I read the entire article, along with a couple of other articles from other sources, and it seems the issue is whether a club at a university should allow equal access to all students instead of a few. While, on the surface, this may seem like a good idea, it is political correctness run amok. For instance, should atheists have the right to be leaders of a Christian organization? Or would it make sense for home economics students to run engineering clubs? Or here's a good one.... How about comedians becoming leaders of the Democratic and Republican clubs on campus? Well, maybe that does make sense, considering all the clowns who ended up in Washington. But the whole point here is that organizations of a specific group should have the right to exclude those who don't belong in that group. If you disagree with me, then let's allow a KKK'er to join a black students' campus group, and then watch all hell break loose.

    In short, the University of Michigan was not targeting a group because they were Christians. U of M was just being stupid.

    Now people are delving into the absurd.

    The university is now demanding or requiring that a Christian club appoint a dissenter to a leadership position. Why does this seem to be so difficult for some to comprehend.

    The university simply says a club cannot have a rule which bars any person from running for office in the organisation. Do you honestly think that a club of fundamentalist evangelicals would choose an outspoken atheist as one of their leaders?

    In short, those objecting to the University's policies regarding "Registered Student Organisations" are simply refusing to look at the facts - and I call that "being stupid"
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    "In order for students to be InterVarsity leaders they must sign a statement of faith. But the university said that requirement violated their non-discrimination policy".

    Why can't Christians limit their group to Christians? By making a rule that says people of faith must accept people of other faiths, or atheists, does not make any sense. It is clearly discriminatory against people of a particular faith who want to share a commonality with other members. Otherwise what is the point of a club?
    They can limit their group to Christians. Just not with subsidy from the government. Does that bother you? Do they have some right to subsidy?
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Their official policy is as follows:
    The University of Michigan, as an equal opportunity/affirmative action employer, complies with all applicable federal and state laws regarding nondiscrimination and affirmative action. The University of Michigan is committed to a policy of equal opportunity for all persons and does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, national origin, age, marital status, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, disability, religion, height, weight, or veteran status in employment, educational programs and activities, and admissions. Inquiries or complaints may be addressed to the Senior Director for Institutional Equity, and Title IX/Section 504/ADA Coordinator, Office of Institutional Equity, 2072 Administrative Services Building, Ann Arbor, Michigan 48109-1432, 734-763-0235, TTY 734-647-1388. For other University of Michigan information call 734-764-1817.
    If you go to their listing of clubs, you will find plenty that are in violation. Student Clubs | University of Michigan

    For example:
    Friars: All-male choral group.

    Gentlemen: All-male a cappella group.

    Their Muslim Student Association allows all, but reserves the right to remove anyone who is "unfit to serve as a leader of the local Muslim Community and/or representing the MSA in a fashion that conflicts with Muslim Principles"

    I'm sure I could find more, but you get the point.
    Last edited by Pilot; 02-02-13 at 11:49 PM.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why can't Christians limit their group to Christians?
    No groups on campus can limit their group by religion, gender, or race.

    Muslims can't do it.

    Jews can't do it.

    Blacks can't do it.

    Women can't do it.

    It'd be discrimination if ONLY christians were limited. But they're not.

    Something "Not making sense" is not the same as discrimination. You're using one word but arguing a complete different thing.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Their official policy is as follows:


    If you go to their listing of clubs, you will find plenty that are in violation. Student Clubs | University of Michigan

    For example:
    Friars: All-male choral group.

    Gentlemen: All-male a cappella group.

    Their Muslim Student Association allows all, but reserves the right to remove anyone who is "unfit to serve as a leader of the local Muslim Community and/or representing the MSA in a fashion that conflicts with Muslim Principles"

    I'm sure I could find more, but you get the point.
    The point is you are reaching. A male voice choir does not exclude non-males from supporting roles, or even singing if they have a male voice. Likewise if you stick to Muslim principles anyone could hypothetically be a MSA representative. It's all in the wording, and the rejected group were even advised by the university on how they could be in compliance, but they refused, and excluded themselves for their own political reasons.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    The point is you are reaching. A male voice choir does not exclude non-males from supporting roles, or even singing if they have a male voice. Likewise if you stick to Muslim principles anyone could hypothetically be a MSA representative. It's all in the wording, and the rejected group were even advised by the university on how they could be in compliance, but they refused, and excluded themselves for their own political reasons.
    You see nothing wrong with requiring adherence to Muslim principals? How is that in compliance with their religious discrimination policy?

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilot View Post
    Their official policy is as follows:


    If you go to their listing of clubs, you will find plenty that are in violation. Student Clubs | University of Michigan

    For example:
    Friars: All-male choral group.

    Gentlemen: All-male a cappella group.

    Their Muslim Student Association allows all, but reserves the right to remove anyone who is "unfit to serve as a leader of the local Muslim Community and/or representing the MSA in a fashion that conflicts with Muslim Principles"

    I'm sure I could find more, but you get the point.
    The all men Choir groups are a good question and is one the group in question or some reporters should inquire about. If you're going to enforce a policy with zero tolerance and no common sense leeway, you need to enforce it across the board.

    I don't see the later violating the rule any more than if the Christian org said that an individual acting in a way that is contrary to the ten commandments or something similar could be removed.

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