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Thread: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    WHY do you think the university is being "ridiculous" when it requires a club which receives some funding, meeting places and other support from the school to abide by well known rules?
    Because the rules in this case are ridiculous. I belonged to a computer geek club at one of the universities I attended. We were required to know how to build and config a BSD Sparcstation from barebones to stay in the club. Not everyone can or would do that.

    Does the choir have to admit those who cannot carry a tune?

    I understand what the policy is trying to achieve, but it fails badly as written and implemented in this case.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

    Bureaucrats trying to manage culture and morals: always a mistake.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Many well intentioned 'non-discriminatory' laws are often shown to be discriminatory, as in this case.
    How is it discriminatory in this case?

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Quite. It would appear that all of the other Christian clubs that operate on campus-- with the full blessing of the administration-- understood this. As ridiculous as the policy is when applied to religious organizations... the club itself is deliberately being ridiculous for the purposes of picking a fight and claiming they're being oppressed.
    No, it was the PC crowd who picked a fight by making up foolish rules for these organizations.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Oh, agreed-- the language comes from their anti-discrimination policy. It would just be a bad precedent to say that the anti-discrimination policy rules didn't apply to religious clubs when it applied to every other club.
    But the rule itself is discriminatory. That it might be applied equally does not make it less discriminatory, only that others will agree to the rule and then ignore it.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Not me, it's Christian symbology. "The Lord is my shepherd." and the like.
    Oh, ok. So that's where you found the irony. In the 'symbology' of a prayer,

    Nobody is interfering with personal decisions. As countless people have said countless times already, this isn't about preventing the club from existing, it's about whether the University formally supports it.
    yes, we all understand that.

    The clubs aren't there to get an education. University supported clubs are for the benefit of the University by helping provide a wider social structure for their students. That's why the University has rules about the nature of the clubs it supports.
    A wider social structure? It seems to me that by applying these rules they are undermining the social structure. Unless there is obvious discrimination going on they should just relax and let people get along as best they can. Kaking preemptive and unrealistic rules are usually counter productive, as we can see in this case. if they had just let things alone there would not be any controversy at all and people could just enjoy their get-togethers with less hassle.



    Wider philosophoes can be beneficial but sometimes they stray to far from the topic.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Grant; 02-02-13 at 05:39 PM.

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    How is it discriminatory in this case?
    "In order for students to be InterVarsity leaders they must sign a statement of faith. But the university said that requirement violated their non-discrimination policy".

    Why can't Christians limit their group to Christians? By making a rule that says people of faith must accept people of other faiths, or atheists, does not make any sense. It is clearly discriminatory against people of a particular faith who want to share a commonality with other members. Otherwise what is the point of a club?

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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus[W: 196]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But the rule itself is discriminatory. That it might be applied equally does not make it less discriminatory, only that others will agree to the rule and then ignore it.
    Nonsense. A universal rule can't be discriminatory. The rule prohibits policies which discriminate. The others comply, so they don't ignore it.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    But they are messing with religion if they are saying that they have to open up their club to non Christians. That flies in the face of common sense and is obviously discriminatory.
    I wasn't aware that Jesus excluded the gentiles.

    Either way, the doesn't have to allow non-Christians in. Where'd you get the idea that the school had such power? They obviously do not have that power. So silly.
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    Re: University of Michigan Kicks Christian Club off Campus

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I wasn't aware that Jesus excluded the gentiles.

    Either way, the doesn't have to allow non-Christians in. Where'd you get the idea that the school had such power? They obviously do not have that power. So silly.

    Uh - yes they do have to allow "non-Christians in". There can be no discrimination in university endorsed organisations. None, Nada, Zero, Nil - discrimination.


    Which brings to mind a story, anecdote but still relevant. A female relative's room mate was a Muslim, born in Egypt but grew up in a small town in West Virginia where her father was one of three doctors in the community. Her freshman year, she tried to join the school's African American club, they refused to accept her even though she was the only one who was actually born in Africa and was an American citizen - she didn't bother to protest because she just thought it was funny that some students were so ignorant. She told this story one night as we were sitting around telling stories and drinking beer. I was curious about her background as she had this very country, hill billy accent. So she told how her family had emigrated when she was a baby, because her father was a doctor there had been some pressure to take a position where there weren't many physicians, so she grew up in a small town in the hills of West Virginia. I asked if her family was still living there and she said yes, they had come to enjoy the place and people accepted them. Then I asked what her parents were doing as it was a weekend when parents were invited to the school and she told us they were on pilgrimage to Mecca - as she asked for another beer.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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