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Thread: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    you do not own the software. Period. End of story.
    I know this is how the courts will see it. What I'm saying is that this is bull****.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    This is analogous to he situation of a PC and the Windows OS. The PC is similarly useless without the OS an just as with phone you do not own the software. You own the right to use software. Nothing more.
    Ahh, this is actually a perfect example. It is like owning the rights to use Windows... and going to jail for switching ISPs. Your cell carrier didn't even make the software. Do you think Samsung cares if I switch to AT&T? Of course not. It's Verizon that is being given a handout here: threat of imprisonment for what used to be only worthy of an early termination fee. Almost a literal captive consumer base.
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I know this is how the courts will see it. What I'm saying is that this is bull****.
    It is not BS. It says it right in the contract you agreed to.


    Ahh, this is actually a perfect example. It is like owning the rights to use Windows... and going to jail for switching ISPs. Your cell carrier didn't even make the software. Do you think Samsung cares if I switch to AT&T? Of course not. It's Verizon that is being given a handout here: threat of imprisonment for what used to be only worthy of an early termination fee. Almost a literal captive consumer base.
    You don't have to modify Windows to switch ISP's and you don't agree to a contract that forbids you from switching ISPs when you buy a Windows license
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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    a better question, will such a law even be enforceable at any significant level?
    Enough that a buddy of mine certainly stopped doing it for a service.
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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    This is analogous to he situation of a PC and the Windows OS. The PC is similarly useless without the OS an just as with phone you do not own the software. You own the right to use software. Nothing more.
    If you have a PC, you are not required to run Windows on it. You're entirely free to run something else, such as Linux, on that same hardware that might have come with Windows. You own the computer. It is your property, and nobody else's. Nobody else has a right to tell you what software you may or may not run on it, so long as you obtain and use that software in accordance with any copyrights that that software might carry.
    Last edited by Bob Blaylock; 02-01-13 at 04:12 AM. Reason: A man without a forklift is nothing. May the Forks be with you.
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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    You are free to not contract for a cell phone if You dont like the terms. Cell phone providers hugely discount upfront hardware charges to lock you into a long term contract. By unlocking the phone and using someone elses system you are in breach of contract. This law is unnecessary simply because current contract law should be sufficient.

    You're always free to buy that iPhone at full price and shop or service providers.
    How am I in breach of contract by unlocking the phone, when I still have to continue paying for 2 years? What does it matter if I use another service if I still have to pay for theirs until the contract is up? It has nothing to do with that. Take Iphones for instance. For the first few years you couldn't use them on ANY other carrier for any reason, even if you bought it full price. That's not a contract. You bought it and can use it as you wish. If I rewire my toaster to play DVDs, I should be able to do that.

    Or another situation that I've personally been screwed by: John signs up for AT&T with a 2 year contract and gets a phone. After a year, he decides to get a new phone, or whatever. He sells the phone, but has to continue paying the 2 year contract, OR pay the buyout fee. I buy the phone from him, but I can now not legally use it on any other carrier, even though AT&T has recouped every penny and MORE from John for the price of the phone. It's a paid off phone. It used to be the SIM lock would wear off after 2 years, now most phones stay locked to a carrier permanently.

    It has NOTHING to do with a contract, at all.


    Oh, and to top it off, this is ONE Man who made this law, who wasn't elected by citizens. He's a god damn librarian, not a congressman. 5 years and $500,000 fine for a FIRST time offense, all for using something you legally own. Yeah, I'm sure AT&T, then 10th largest lobby in washington, had nothing to do with this.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 02-01-13 at 04:43 AM.
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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    you do not own the software. Period. End of story.
    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I disagree with the crimimalization of contract law, but I also disagree with your position that you can do whatever you want with software you don't own
    You do own the software. MODIFYING the software isn't illegal. Copying it and distributing it, is. This would be the equivalent of adding a turbo to your Corvette, vs making counterfeit Corvettes in your garage. Completely different. This has nothing to do with contract law, because nothing you do to the phone effects the contract, you still either have to pay the monthly fee or the buyout fee.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    How am I in breach of contract by unlocking the phone, when I still have to continue paying for 2 years? What does it matter if I use another service if I still have to pay for theirs until the contract is up? It has nothing to do with that. Take Iphones for instance. For the first few years you couldn't use them on ANY other carrier for any reason, even if you bought it full price. That's not a contract. You bought it and can use it as you wish. If I rewire my toaster to play DVDs, I should be able to do that.
    Err that was because of Apple and hardware limitations they put on the phones in the US. If you bought an Apple phone in Europe, then you could use it on what ever carrier you wanted.

    Or another situation that I've personally been screwed by: John signs up for AT&T with a 2 year contract and gets a phone. After a year, he decides to get a new phone, or whatever. He sells the phone, but has to continue paying the 2 year contract, OR pay the buyout fee. I buy the phone from him, but I can now not legally use it on any other carrier, even though AT&T has recouped every penny and MORE from John for the price of the phone. It's a paid off phone. It used to be the SIM lock would wear off after 2 years, now most phones stay locked to a carrier permanently.
    Yea it sucks.

    It has NOTHING to do with a contract, at all.
    Nope, it is about control by the telecommunications monopoly in the US.

    Oh, and to top it off, this is ONE Man who made this law, who wasn't elected by citizens. He's a god damn librarian, not a congressman. 5 years and $500,000 fine for a FIRST time offense, all for using something you legally own. Yeah, I'm sure AT&T, then 10th largest lobby in washington, had nothing to do with this.
    Heheh bet Verizon had just as much to do with it.. they after all already have a near monopoly because they use the CDMA standard instead of GSM.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    As for a Windows license.. it depends on which kind you have. If you buy a PC with windows then it is an OEM license, and you do own the copy but it is bound to that PC and can not be transferred to another.... it lives and dies with the PC.

    Now you can buy a full version of the Windows OS and that you own also, and can install on any PC. It is bound to that PC as well, but you can transfer it to another by calling Microsoft.

    Now OSX is another matter... since that is hardware dependent.. technically if you make a hackentosh then you are breaking the license.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Err that was because of Apple and hardware limitations they put on the phones in the US. If you bought an Apple phone in Europe, then you could use it on what ever carrier you wanted.



    Yea it sucks.



    Nope, it is about control by the telecommunications monopoly in the US.



    Heheh bet Verizon had just as much to do with it.. they after all already have a near monopoly because they use the CDMA standard instead of GSM.
    1) Apple and AT&T formed what I called an unholy union. I find both companies to be some of the most sinister on the planet. Horrible, horrible people.

    2) Yes, the telecommuncations monopoly and their lobbies with our politicians in their pocket. It bothers me beyond belief that one man made this law, not our congress. Though I don't really have faith in them anyway either. It would just be at least more expensive for the lobbies to buy that many more congressmen.

    3) Verizon is equally as sinister, if not more so. I've actually got a funny picture of me to describe this:



    I spent weeks trying to get my internet fixed. They pushed me around India for hours and hours on the phone, several times, and when I did finally get appointments, they would never show up, or would say "Oh, we fixed it here on the computer". I even went down to Verizon stores, and they refused to help me, saying they can order new internet, but have nothing to do with getting internet fixed. They pushed me too far.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post

    I spent weeks trying to get my internet fixed. They pushed me around India for hours and hours on the phone, several times, and when I did finally get appointments, they would never show up, or would say "Oh, we fixed it here on the computer". I even went down to Verizon stores, and they refused to help me, saying they can order new internet, but have nothing to do with getting internet fixed. They pushed me too far.
    Well change ISP then.... no wait you most likely cant right?
    PeteEU

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