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Unlocking Cell Phones Now Illegal In The US

RabidAlpaca said:
Ah yes, even more laws created by a government that values corporate interests over citizen's rights. 'Merica. Land of the free my ass.
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You are free to not contract for a cell phone if You dont like the terms. Cell phone providers hugely discount upfront hardware charges to lock you into a long term contract. By unlocking the phone and using someone elses system you are in breach of contract. This law is unnecessary simply because current contract law should be sufficient.

You're always free to buy that iPhone at full price and shop or service providers.
 
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If you sign a contract for your service...you better read what you are signing. I pay my phone on a month to month basis. I do not sign any contracts. I do not want to be locked in to any provider for any length of time. I prefer it the way I have it now.

Although, I am one of those rare people that does not have a smart phone. I have no desire to have such a thing. Just a phone to text and call...that is all I will ever need in a phone. GPS? I use maps. Games? I have a Nintendo DS. Internet? I have a computer at home that I will use when I want to get online.

Never sign any contract without reading it unless you are completely stupid. In that contract, it could state that you are only to use their service under those 2 years and if you use someone else's well that is breach of contract.
 
sangha said:
I disagree with the crimimalization of contract law, but I also disagree with your position that you can do whatever you want with software you don't own
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I own the phone, the software is an integral part of that phone. So yes, the way I see it, I do own the software. Because without software it's not a phone anymore, and what I purchased is a phone.
Not that I can copy the software and sell it as my own. I own the 0's and 1's that exist on this particular phone. I own the SD card, don't I? I own the circuitboards and microchips, right? How can I own the SD card and not the data it contains? How can I own the chip and not the bits?

It's like owning a car and not owning its steering wheel. Why shouldn't I be able to modify my car? Sure, it'll void the warranty maybe. Or the manufacturer might no longer be responsible for footing the bill for any required modifications due to a recall or whatever. But it's my goddamned car why am I going to jail for this?
 
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Deuce said:
I own the phone, the software is an integral part of that phone. So yes, the way I see it, I do own the software. Because without software it's not a phone anymore, and what I purchased is a phone.
Not that I can copy the software and sell it as my own. I own the 0's and 1's that exist on this particular phone. I own the SD card, don't I? I own the circuitboards and microchips, right? How can I own the SD card and not the data it contains? How can I own the chip and not the bits?

It's like owning a car and not owning its steering wheel. Why shouldn't I be able to modify my car? Sure, it'll void the warranty maybe. Or the manufacturer might no longer be responsible for footing the bill for any required modifications due to a recall or whatever. But it's my goddamned car why am I going to jail for this?
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you do not own the software. Period. End of story.
 
Deuce said:
I own the phone, the software is an integral part of that phone. So yes, the way I see it, I do own the software. Because without software it's not a phone anymore, and what I purchased is a phone.
Not that I can copy the software and sell it as my own. I own the 0's and 1's that exist on this particular phone. I own the SD card, don't I? I own the circuitboards and microchips, right? How can I own the SD card and not the data it contains? How can I own the chip and not the bits?

It's like owning a car and not owning its steering wheel. Why shouldn't I be able to modify my car? Sure, it'll void the warranty maybe. Or the manufacturer might no longer be responsible for footing the bill for any required modifications due to a recall or whatever. But it's my goddamned car why am I going to jail for this?
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This is analogous to he situation of a PC and the Windows OS. The PC is similarly useless without the OS an just as with phone you do not own the software. You own the right to use software. Nothing more.
 
sangha said:
you do not own the software. Period. End of story.
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I know this is how the courts will see it. What I'm saying is that this is bull****.

Gaius46 said:
This is analogous to he situation of a PC and the Windows OS. The PC is similarly useless without the OS an just as with phone you do not own the software. You own the right to use software. Nothing more.
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Ahh, this is actually a perfect example. It is like owning the rights to use Windows... and going to jail for switching ISPs. Your cell carrier didn't even make the software. Do you think Samsung cares if I switch to AT&T? Of course not. It's Verizon that is being given a handout here: threat of imprisonment for what used to be only worthy of an early termination fee. Almost a literal captive consumer base.
 
Deuce said:
I know this is how the courts will see it. What I'm saying is that this is bull****.
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It is not BS. It says it right in the contract you agreed to.


Ahh, this is actually a perfect example. It is like owning the rights to use Windows... and going to jail for switching ISPs. Your cell carrier didn't even make the software. Do you think Samsung cares if I switch to AT&T? Of course not. It's Verizon that is being given a handout here: threat of imprisonment for what used to be only worthy of an early termination fee. Almost a literal captive consumer base.
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You don't have to modify Windows to switch ISP's and you don't agree to a contract that forbids you from switching ISPs when you buy a Windows license
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
a better question, will such a law even be enforceable at any significant level?
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Enough that a buddy of mine certainly stopped doing it for a service.
 
Gaius46 said:
This is analogous to he situation of a PC and the Windows OS. The PC is similarly useless without the OS an just as with phone you do not own the software. You own the right to use software. Nothing more.
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If you have a PC, you are not required to run Windows on it. You're entirely free to run something else, such as Linux, on that same hardware that might have come with Windows. You own the computer. It is your property, and nobody else's. Nobody else has a right to tell you what software you may or may not run on it, so long as you obtain and use that software in accordance with any copyrights that that software might carry.
 
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Gaius46 said:
You are free to not contract for a cell phone if You dont like the terms. Cell phone providers hugely discount upfront hardware charges to lock you into a long term contract. By unlocking the phone and using someone elses system you are in breach of contract. This law is unnecessary simply because current contract law should be sufficient.

You're always free to buy that iPhone at full price and shop or service providers.
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How am I in breach of contract by unlocking the phone, when I still have to continue paying for 2 years? What does it matter if I use another service if I still have to pay for theirs until the contract is up? It has nothing to do with that. Take Iphones for instance. For the first few years you couldn't use them on ANY other carrier for any reason, even if you bought it full price. That's not a contract. You bought it and can use it as you wish. If I rewire my toaster to play DVDs, I should be able to do that.

Or another situation that I've personally been screwed by: John signs up for AT&T with a 2 year contract and gets a phone. After a year, he decides to get a new phone, or whatever. He sells the phone, but has to continue paying the 2 year contract, OR pay the buyout fee. I buy the phone from him, but I can now not legally use it on any other carrier, even though AT&T has recouped every penny and MORE from John for the price of the phone. It's a paid off phone. It used to be the SIM lock would wear off after 2 years, now most phones stay locked to a carrier permanently.

It has NOTHING to do with a contract, at all.


Oh, and to top it off, this is ONE Man who made this law, who wasn't elected by citizens. He's a god damn librarian, not a congressman. 5 years and $500,000 fine for a FIRST time offense, all for using something you legally own. Yeah, I'm sure AT&T, then 10th largest lobby in washington, had nothing to do with this.
 
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sangha said:
you do not own the software. Period. End of story.
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sangha said:
I disagree with the crimimalization of contract law, but I also disagree with your position that you can do whatever you want with software you don't own
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You do own the software. MODIFYING the software isn't illegal. Copying it and distributing it, is. This would be the equivalent of adding a turbo to your Corvette, vs making counterfeit Corvettes in your garage. Completely different. This has nothing to do with contract law, because nothing you do to the phone effects the contract, you still either have to pay the monthly fee or the buyout fee.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
How am I in breach of contract by unlocking the phone, when I still have to continue paying for 2 years? What does it matter if I use another service if I still have to pay for theirs until the contract is up? It has nothing to do with that. Take Iphones for instance. For the first few years you couldn't use them on ANY other carrier for any reason, even if you bought it full price. That's not a contract. You bought it and can use it as you wish. If I rewire my toaster to play DVDs, I should be able to do that.
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Err that was because of Apple and hardware limitations they put on the phones in the US. If you bought an Apple phone in Europe, then you could use it on what ever carrier you wanted.

Or another situation that I've personally been screwed by: John signs up for AT&T with a 2 year contract and gets a phone. After a year, he decides to get a new phone, or whatever. He sells the phone, but has to continue paying the 2 year contract, OR pay the buyout fee. I buy the phone from him, but I can now not legally use it on any other carrier, even though AT&T has recouped every penny and MORE from John for the price of the phone. It's a paid off phone. It used to be the SIM lock would wear off after 2 years, now most phones stay locked to a carrier permanently.
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Yea it sucks.

It has NOTHING to do with a contract, at all.
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Nope, it is about control by the telecommunications monopoly in the US.

Oh, and to top it off, this is ONE Man who made this law, who wasn't elected by citizens. He's a god damn librarian, not a congressman. 5 years and $500,000 fine for a FIRST time offense, all for using something you legally own. Yeah, I'm sure AT&T, then 10th largest lobby in washington, had nothing to do with this.
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Heheh bet Verizon had just as much to do with it.. they after all already have a near monopoly because they use the CDMA standard instead of GSM.
 
As for a Windows license.. it depends on which kind you have. If you buy a PC with windows then it is an OEM license, and you do own the copy but it is bound to that PC and can not be transferred to another.... it lives and dies with the PC.

Now you can buy a full version of the Windows OS and that you own also, and can install on any PC. It is bound to that PC as well, but you can transfer it to another by calling Microsoft.

Now OSX is another matter... since that is hardware dependent.. technically if you make a hackentosh then you are breaking the license.
 
PeteEU said:
Err that was because of Apple and hardware limitations they put on the phones in the US. If you bought an Apple phone in Europe, then you could use it on what ever carrier you wanted.



Yea it sucks.



Nope, it is about control by the telecommunications monopoly in the US.



Heheh bet Verizon had just as much to do with it.. they after all already have a near monopoly because they use the CDMA standard instead of GSM.
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1) Apple and AT&T formed what I called an unholy union. I find both companies to be some of the most sinister on the planet. Horrible, horrible people.

2) Yes, the telecommuncations monopoly and their lobbies with our politicians in their pocket. It bothers me beyond belief that one man made this law, not our congress. Though I don't really have faith in them anyway either. It would just be at least more expensive for the lobbies to buy that many more congressmen.

3) Verizon is equally as sinister, if not more so. I've actually got a funny picture of me to describe this:

258932_10150194285641787_587455_o.jpg


I spent weeks trying to get my internet fixed. They pushed me around India for hours and hours on the phone, several times, and when I did finally get appointments, they would never show up, or would say "Oh, we fixed it here on the computer". I even went down to Verizon stores, and they refused to help me, saying they can order new internet, but have nothing to do with getting internet fixed. They pushed me too far.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I spent weeks trying to get my internet fixed. They pushed me around India for hours and hours on the phone, several times, and when I did finally get appointments, they would never show up, or would say "Oh, we fixed it here on the computer". I even went down to Verizon stores, and they refused to help me, saying they can order new internet, but have nothing to do with getting internet fixed. They pushed me too far.
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Well change ISP then.... no wait you most likely cant right?
 
PeteEU said:
Well change ISP then.... no wait you most likely cant right?
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Well I'm not longer even in the states, but at the time, I was renting a room in someone's house and they had Verizon. I think he had a crazy contract even if he did want to change.
 
Fisher said:
My problem is that for as much as they charge you for a telephone, even if it is at "special rate", then it is your phone regardless of what their fine print says. The next time mine breaks after I am out of my contract I am switching to straight talk or one of those jobbies. I am sick of AT&T already.
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I switched from Verizon to Virgin Mobile two years ago. I love it!
 
danarhea said:
We may own the phone, but we do not own the infrastructure it runs on. Take away the infrastructure, and the phone does not work. Therefore, those who own the infrastructure have a right to determine the terms and conditions for those who access and use that infrastructure.
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First of all, the American people subsidized the creation of cellular infrastructure with tax dollars. Secondly, the carriers are not using the argument that the device they sell you to access their infrastructure cannot be modified; rather, they are claiming that their locked phones are using their software which customers do not have permission to modify. It's a matter of Digital Rights Management, not network access.

The law is bunk and I will be ignoring it, especially because I travel internationally.
 
It's funny watching all the Lefties supporting the rights of Big Telecom. :lamo
 
Bob Blaylock said:
If you have a PC, you are not required to run Windows on it. You're entirely free to run something else, such as Linux, on that same hardware that might have come with Windows. You own the computer. It is your property, and nobody else's. Nobody else has a right to tell you what software you may or may not run on it, so long as you obtain and use that software in accordance with any copyrights that that software might carry.
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Yes this is true but it is not the point I was making. My point was that you do not own software, you license the right to use it and your right to use is subject to the terms of the licensing agreement.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
How am I in breach of contract by unlocking the phone, when I still have to continue paying for 2 years? What does it matter if I use another service if I still have to pay for theirs until the contract is up? It has nothing to do with that. Take Iphones for instance. For the first few years you couldn't use them on ANY other carrier for any reason, even if you bought it full price. That's not a contract. You bought it and can use it as you wish. If I rewire my toaster to play DVDs, I should be able to do that.

Or another situation that I've personally been screwed by: John signs up for AT&T with a 2 year contract and gets a phone. After a year, he decides to get a new phone, or whatever. He sells the phone, but has to continue paying the 2 year contract, OR pay the buyout fee. I buy the phone from him, but I can now not legally use it on any other carrier, even though AT&T has recouped every penny and MORE from John for the price of the phone. It's a paid off phone. It used to be the SIM lock would wear off after 2 years, now most phones stay locked to a carrier permanently.

It has NOTHING to do with a contract, at all.


Oh, and to top it off, this is ONE Man who made this law, who wasn't elected by citizens. He's a god damn librarian, not a congressman. 5 years and $500,000 fine for a FIRST time offense, all for using something you legally own. Yeah, I'm sure AT&T, then 10th largest lobby in washington, had nothing to do with this.
Click to expand...

If you agree to a contract that says you can't unlock the phone and you do then you are in breach of that contract. It's really pretty straightforward. If those terms don't suit you then don't agree to them. Whether they can or do recoup their cost is immaterial. You agreed to certain terms and are obligated to abide by them.

If you bought an iPhone and your purchase agreement doesn't prohibit you from modifying it then have at it.

If you want to purchase a phone that you can modify to use on someone else's network go right ahead. Just make sure you can modify it. The manufacturer or original telco is under no obligation to make hardware that you can modify. If you can't live with tha then by all means don't buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head.

I've already stated this is a simple contract law issue. A new law isn't needed. But I will point out that the Librarian of Congress didn't make this law. Congress did. He may be given implementation and enforcement powers with respect to the law but that's entirely a different matter - and the way government works.
 
Gaius46 said:
If you agree to a contract that says you can't unlock the phone and you do then you are in breach of that contract. It's really pretty straightforward. If those terms don't suit you then don't agree to them. Whether they can or do recoup their cost is immaterial. You agreed to certain terms and are obligated to abide by them.

If you bought an iPhone and your purchase agreement doesn't prohibit you from modifying it then have at it.

If you want to purchase a phone that you can modify to use on someone else's network go right ahead. Just make sure you can modify it. The manufacturer or original telco is under no obligation to make hardware that you can modify. If you can't live with tha then by all means don't buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head.

I've already stated this is a simple contract law issue. A new law isn't needed. But I will point out that the Librarian of Congress didn't make this law. Congress did. He may be given implementation and enforcement powers with respect to the law but that's entirely a different matter - and the way government works.
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Your right its CONTRATUAL law. This unlocking or not has absolutely NO business in criminal law. If you violate the contract let the em sue ya. 5 years and 500,000 dollors is and felony convition to boot is BS.
 
Gaius46 said:
If you agree to a contract that says you can't unlock the phone and you do then you are in breach of that contract. It's really pretty straightforward. If those terms don't suit you then don't agree to them. Whether they can or do recoup their cost is immaterial. You agreed to certain terms and are obligated to abide by them.

If you bought an iPhone and your purchase agreement doesn't prohibit you from modifying it then have at it.

If you want to purchase a phone that you can modify to use on someone else's network go right ahead. Just make sure you can modify it. The manufacturer or original telco is under no obligation to make hardware that you can modify. If you can't live with tha then by all means don't buy it. No one is putting a gun to your head.

I've already stated this is a simple contract law issue. A new law isn't needed. But I will point out that the Librarian of Congress didn't make this law. Congress did. He may be given implementation and enforcement powers with respect to the law but that's entirely a different matter - and the way government works.
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I want you to name one civilian contract violation penalty that carries the punishment of 5 years in prison and a $500k fine. The puppetmasters are pulling at the strings of our politicians. No other consumer / provider agreement in the US has anything even remotely similar in punishment, and from what I understand almost none of them are handled by criminal law.
 
American said:
It's funny watching all the Lefties supporting the rights of Big Telecom. :lamo
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It's funny watching all the righties supporting breaking the law. :lamo
 
TheNextEra said:
It's funny watching all the righties supporting breaking the law. :lamo
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They're protesting contractual law finding itself into criminal law. They understand the reason this occurred is because of political favors being done for the corporate world and like anyone against corporatism should do they're protesting such actions.
 
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