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Thread: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    There are approx 20,000 deaths a year by violent means. The vast majority of them are inner city gang related and have nothing to do with weapons classifications, ballistics, etc. Want to deal with the problems? Start there.
    By doing what?

    And there are not any elsewhere?

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    There are times when law-abiding citizens decide to become criminals out of a desire for revenge, greed or power.
    There is absolutely no mystery where the vast majority of violent crimes are perpetrated and by whom. You have the stones to truly address the problems?

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    By doing what?

    And there are not any elsewhere?
    Going after gangs. Going after violent offenders. Pass mandatory minimum sentencing. Use fed RICO statutes on gangs. Build lots and lots of prisons and lock violent offenders up for a REAAAAAALLLYYY long time. Sure...you work on some of the social ills too...AFTER you attack the actual problems. Of course...you could follow the typical path of least resistance and pass laws that do nothing or target law abiding citizens. The answers are in front of your face. Takes some real commitment to actually deal with the problem.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Going after gangs. Going after violent offenders. Pass mandatory minimum sentencing. Use fed RICO statutes on gangs. Build lots and lots of prisons and lock violent offenders up for a REAAAAAALLLYYY long time. Sure...you work on some of the social ills too...AFTER you attack the actual problems. Of course...you could follow the typical path of least resistance and pass laws that do nothing or target law abiding citizens. The answers are in front of your face. Takes some real commitment to actually deal with the problem.
    All those have to do with after the fact penalties. We also need to develop better preventative measures. Building more prisons doesn't solve the problem and cost more taxpayer dollars than preventative measures.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Going after gangs. Going after violent offenders. Pass mandatory minimum sentencing. Use fed RICO statutes on gangs. Build lots and lots of prisons and lock violent offenders up for a REAAAAAALLLYYY long time. Sure...you work on some of the social ills too...AFTER you attack the actual problems.
    1) It does not occur to you that there can be “social ills” as roots motivation for the gangs?
    2) The Stick, the GET ****ING TOUGH has kinda run its course and now we have near 1% of the country in prison, far higher percent than any other country on the planet. It is not even close, arguably creating a social ill of its very own. Still we are racking up body count. Because such approach is reactive (not to mention imperfect, otherwise nobody would be able to murder twice).
    3) Even after all those murders go away there are still a whole pile of firearm deaths. Which is relevant, right?

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Do you know what apples and oranges are? We are talking about basic gun rights, which may or may not include CCW. His comment is overall relevant while yours is not.
    Then make that argument and not that it reduces crime.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    So you are arguing that we need more gun control laws yet, at the same time are asserting that they do little, if anything, to limit gun crime? Hmm...
    Im not arguing for more laws. I'm arguing against fallacious arguments.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    1) It does not occur to you that there can be “social ills” as roots motivation for the gangs?
    2) The Stick, the GET ****ING TOUGH has kinda run its course and now we have near 1% of the country in prison, far higher percent than any other country on the planet. It is not even close, arguably creating a social ill of its very own. Still we are racking up body count. Because such approach is reactive (not to mention imperfect, otherwise nobody would be able to murder twice).
    3) Even after all those murders go away there are still a whole pile of firearm deaths. Which is relevant, right?
    I could not give half a **** about the social ills that contribute to the gang violence and I LOATHE the people that make excuses for them. Address the social ills...well and good. There is no excuse for violent criminal action. There is NO excuse for drive by shootings or the murder that occurred in Chicago today of people gathered at a bus stop. Deal with the PROBLEM of violent crime. I know...its very uncomfortable...you would have to actually go after...criminals.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    All those have to do with after the fact penalties. We also need to develop better preventative measures. Building more prisons doesn't solve the problem and cost more taxpayer dollars than preventative measures.
    Yes, it does. Chicago today released a report that showed that 75% of the perpetrators of violent crimes in their fair city are repeat offenders. Thats a ****ing AWESOME place to start. When people satrt to realize there is no longer a revolving door then they might think twice about committing ANY violent act with a weapon. If they dont get the memo...they wont be released to re-offend til they are old and grey. Its a HELLUVA lot better place to start than making excuses for them, building new schools that are going to get trashed while the bodies continue to pile up, and targeting the inanimate objects or law abiding citizens. But then...people like you would have to run the risk of actually be seen attacking the perpetrators....

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I could not give half a **** about the social ills that contribute to the gang violence …
    That is readily apparent.
    Address the social ills…well and good. There is no excuse for violent criminal action.
    I never said excuse, that is your imaginings. But how about you explain insisting on addressing violent crime before social ills?
    There is NO excuse for drive by shootings or the murder that occurred in Chicago today of people gathered at a bus stop. Deal with the PROBLEM of violent crime. I know...its very uncomfortable...you would have to actually go after...criminals.
    We have 2.3 million people in jail, another 5 million on parole. We haven’t exactly been throwing a ****ing Kindergarden picnic.

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