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Thread: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    This argument is a waste of time. It's circular. Here's how this works:
    "Nobody needs a Bushmaster"
    "You have no right to say what I need"
    "But you don't need it. And it is more dangerous than other guns"
    "Handguns kills more people than bushmasters"
    "But Bushmasters are more deadly than handguns"
    "Handguns kill more people, so it's a waste of time to ban the AR-15 and other whatever weapons"
    "But there's no reason not to do it"
    "So that's the logic?"
    "The logic is that you don't need a Bushmaster"
    END

    So I will address your points:


    Actually, you're the one that fears guns, because you have a gun due to your fear that somebody with a gun will attack you. I have nothing against somebody having a gun for the "just in case," but when people are arguing that every citizen needs a handgun, that's what fear sounds like. You can be responsible and have a plan for incidents such as break-ins without having a gun. You can also be very irresponsible with a handgun for self defense, as is evidenced by a handful of very recent stories around my home town regarding children shooting themselves and a crazy old man executing a 17 year old unarmed girl dying in his basement whom he had already shot.

    But "you're just ready," right? Do you think parents who let their children drink pop are irresponsible? Or who let their children eat steak? Or who let their children ride bicycles? I bet you don't, because that's crazy, right? You have to be reasonable. Just like the fact that you have to be reasonable about what situations might come up in which you need self defense. You don't need a bushmaster for self defense. The only reason you'd need a bushmaster is if you needed to kill more people in less time, which is what psychopaths need, not citizens protecting their families.

    I'm not afraid of criminals, which is why I can rationally say that I will never, ever, ever need an ar-15. And NEITHER DO YOU but it is MORE DANGEROUS when in the hands of CRIMINALS so STOP THIS RIDICULOUS ARGUMENT. This is about common sense. How about this: god would have given men guns for arms if he wanted us to shoot people. Would Jesus have shot first and asked questions later? Are you going for the Waco thing? Did those guys seem pretty pious? The religious argument is pretty weak, IMHO.
    tl dr but based on the comments of clear thinkers such as ChrisL its the normal anti gun psychobabble that has been rejected by the rational



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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    I wonder how many gun extremists think Giffords got what was coming to her, as she was an advocate for tighter gun laws before she was a victim of attempted murder.

  3. #473
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring99 View Post
    I wonder how many gun extremists think Giffords got what was coming to her, as she was an advocate for tighter gun laws before she was a victim of attempted murder.
    Yeah, myself.....I wonder how many people in Chicago think Gabby is full of shiznit?

    Course while you say she was for tighter gun laws.

    Then Why hasn't she spoken on such in her own State and in front of her very own people of Arizona?

  4. #474
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring99 View Post
    I wonder how many gun extremists think Giffords got what was coming to her, as she was an advocate for tighter gun laws before she was a victim of attempted murder.
    really?

    Giffords has supported gun rights.[103] In 2008 she opposed Washington D.C. prohibitions on possession of handguns in the home and having usable firearms there, signing an amicus brief with the U.S. Supreme Court to support its overturn.[103][104]



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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It's funny how some people think that they have some kind of authority over other law-abiding citizens to tell them what they can and cannot own because of the actions of murderers and criminals. Some people are so friggin ignorant and arrogant it's not even funny. It's just pathetic and disgusting.
    Do you think people should be able to use legally use and purchase heroin? What would you say if (I'm going to assume that you are, in fact, against legalizing heroin) I told you how disgusting it is that anybody would think they have the authority to tell me what I can and cannot use. It's pathetic and it's disgusting.

    This is called "debate politics." You can go elsewhere if you're offended by somebody disagreeing with you. Just because I and other people say things like "nobody needs ____" what that means is that in our opinion there is no use for ____. I told you that's what I meant and it's like you just don't get it. Frankly, I think you're very confused and in turn you are very confusing. You challenged my points but didn't understand analogy and were unable to put together a relevant response. Don't be so vigorous about getting a response from me, it made me think you were going to give me something worthy of my effort.

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    1) I don't think anybody here has said that everyone needs to have a gun, just that they should have the right to defend themselves with one, should they so choose.

    2) A rifle, such as an AR-15, has many purposes. The most primary of which being hunting or self defense. Considering the latter situation, if you had to bet say, your life savings on a gun fight between Bob and Joe, where Bob has a .22 pistol, and Joe has a 5.56 mm AR-15, semi automatic with a large magazine, whom would you place your bet on? A more powerful weapon can overwhelmingly tip the odds towards the one that has it. Fact is, a homeowner having a more powerful weapon gives him much better chances of surviving the attack.

    I've used the military equivalent to the AR-15, the M4, in combat. Despite what your girlfriend may tell you, size does matter.
    I also think people should have the right to choose whether or not to own a gun so I'm with you there. The problem is that we're talking about using guns for self defense and I've looked around and asked others to look around and nobody here (myself included) has found a single instance, EVER, of a civilian successfully using an AR-15 to defend themselves when a .22 would have done the job just as well. Thank you for serving the country, but now that you're back here, you're not going to need to defend yourself against large groups of people trying to kill you. And what I mean by my use of the term needs, for some of those here who don't get it, is that there is no logical reason why any American civilian needs to shoot thirty rounds to defend themselves from a robber or mugger with the possible exception of those in the Mafia and in prominent drug cartels.

    Even those in gangs do just fine with pistols.

    Lastly, will you please tell VanceMack what you said to me - he's repeatedly told me a bushmaster is no more powerful than a .22 and is not capable of killing more people in the same amount of time. His girlfriend is the one you heard insisting that it's not about the size of the weapon, it's how the man operates it.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    I'm fascinated by the "you don't need it" argument. People actually want government to decided what they need and don't need and to ban whatever it decides they don't need?
    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    their attitudes establish, beyond any reasonable doubt, why the rest of us NEED effective weaponry
    Women don't need the right to choose whether or not they have an abortion, let's get the government to ban them.
    A working class hero is something to be

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post

    I also think people should have the right to choose whether or not to own a gun so I'm with you there. The problem is that we're talking about using guns for self defense and I've looked around and asked others to look around and nobody here (myself included) has found a single instance, EVER, of a civilian successfully using an AR-15 to defend themselves when a .22 would have done the job just as well. Thank you for serving the country, but now that you're back here, you're not going to need to defend yourself against large groups of people trying to kill you. And what I mean by my use of the term needs, for some of those here who don't get it, is that there is no logical reason why any American civilian needs to shoot thirty rounds to defend themselves from a robber or mugger with the possible exception of those in the Mafia and in prominent drug cartels.

    Even those in gangs do just fine with pistols.

    Lastly, will you please tell VanceMack what you said to me - he's repeatedly told me a bushmaster is no more powerful than a .22 and is not capable of killing more people in the same amount of time. His girlfriend is the one you heard insisting that it's not about the size of the weapon, it's how the man operates it.
    You have absolutely no idea what would've happened in any of those situations if the defender had a weaker rifle, and claiming that you do is highly inaccurate.

    I don't know what VanceMack said, nor do I really care. Fact is, a 5.56 AR-15 is light years more powerful than a .22. Even looking at the rounds will tell you that. There are plenty of instances where people have been shot multiple times with a .22 and still managed to overwhelm the defender, or survive the attack no problem. There's hardly anybody who's lived through a Desert Eagle .50 wound.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring99 View Post
    I wonder how many gun extremists think Giffords got what was coming to her, as she was an advocate for tighter gun laws before she was a victim of attempted murder.
    Nobody. It was a horrible tragedy, and it's rather pathetic that you try to create such a ridiculous position about something so tragic and try to pin it on us.
    Last edited by RabidAlpaca; 02-03-13 at 06:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  8. #478
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Women don't need the right to choose whether or not they have an abortion, let's get the government to ban them.
    I worked for planned parenthood. It is cutting down on dem voters.



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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Do you think people should be able to use legally use and purchase heroin? What would you say if (I'm going to assume that you are, in fact, against legalizing heroin) I told you how disgusting it is that anybody would think they have the authority to tell me what I can and cannot use. It's pathetic and it's disgusting.

    This is called "debate politics." You can go elsewhere if you're offended by somebody disagreeing with you. Just because I and other people say things like "nobody needs ____" what that means is that in our opinion there is no use for ____. I told you that's what I meant and it's like you just don't get it. Frankly, I think you're very confused and in turn you are very confusing. You challenged my points but didn't understand analogy and were unable to put together a relevant response. Don't be so vigorous about getting a response from me, it made me think you were going to give me something worthy of my effort.
    Ba-ha-ha! The above just shows how little you know about rights. Since when is doing heroin a RIGHT? Do you even know what a right is? I don't think you do.

    As to the rest of your post, blah, blah, blah. I couldn't care less.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    Women don't need the right to choose whether or not they have an abortion, let's get the government to ban them.
    Having an abortion? Also NOT a right.

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