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Thread: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

  1. #31
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Can Giffords please explain her own state's "lax" gun laws having a violent crime rate ranked 18th and Illinois ranked at 11th with some of the nation's strictest gun laws? What matters is not gun control but criminal control.

    States' crime rates show scant linkage to gun laws - Washington Times

    FBI Violent Crime Stats--Gun Ownership Up/Crime Rates Drop - Handguns
    Do you guys know what a causal relation ship error is?

    National Research Council, 2004: The initial model specification, when extended to new data, does not show evidence that passage of right-to-carry laws reduces crime. The estimated effects are highly sensitive to seemingly minor changes in the model specification and control variables. No link between right-to-carry laws and changes in crime is apparent in the raw data, even in the initial sample; it is only once numerous covariates are included that the negative results in the early data emerge. While the trend models show a reduction in the crime growth rate following the adoption of right-to-carry laws, these trend reductions occur long after law adoption, casting serious doubt on the proposition that the trend models estimated in the literature reflect effects of the law change. Finally, some of the point estimates are imprecise. Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.

    http://factcheck.org/2012/12/gun-rhetoric-vs-gun-facts/

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    What cause do we need to study? We already know…

    Most gun crime happens in the US in population centers with populations of 250,000 or more. The vast majority of said crimes are in black and Hispanic neighborhoods. The cause? Gang violence and the drug war.

    Any questions?
    Plenty of questions, because that is NOT the whole picture. But when the CDC started asking them the NRA wigged out because the data that started coming in (that having a firearm in the home made the occupants less safe) did not fit their pitch.

    EDIT: Playing upon the same misunderstanding of the CDC as demonstrated in the original post here, that studying the topic implied that firearms were a “disease” to be cured.
    Last edited by Dwight; 01-30-13 at 06:31 PM.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you guys know what a causal relation ship error is?

    National Research Council, 2004: The initial model specification, when extended to new data, does not show evidence that passage of right-to-carry laws reduces crime. The estimated effects are highly sensitive to seemingly minor changes in the model specification and control variables. No link between right-to-carry laws and changes in crime is apparent in the raw data, even in the initial sample; it is only once numerous covariates are included that the negative results in the early data emerge. While the trend models show a reduction in the crime growth rate following the adoption of right-to-carry laws, these trend reductions occur long after law adoption, casting serious doubt on the proposition that the trend models estimated in the literature reflect effects of the law change. Finally, some of the point estimates are imprecise. Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.

    FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts
    Do you know what apples and oranges are? We are talking about basic gun rights, which may or may not include CCW. His comment is overall relevant while yours is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    There are times when law-abiding citizens decide to become criminals out of a desire for revenge, greed or power.
    There are over 250 million passenger vehicles on the road and there are times when law-abiding citizens decide to drink and drive, sometimes taking their lives and the lives of others. Is it the drunk drivers that are the problem or the amount of cars on the road?

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    And hoping for another school massacre, I get it.
    actually, hoping against it
    and hope the politicians would effect much more stringent gun laws to prevent such a recurrence
    but your side wants it business as usual (at the over crowded gun store)
    and until gun law restrictions become more appropriate, and fully enforced, the likelihood of another sandy hook is increased ... only because your side opposes doing anything to quell such activities



    They said the same thing about quite a few people, how has that worked for you so far?
    before, did they have Gabby Gifford's as the spokesmodel?
    and you should see her testimony before the congree ... ooops, i sure you already have
    which should answer your question
    she is being quite effective

    Then as I said a "persona" is much more important than rights, lol.
    and you would again be wrong
    nothing should be elevated above our rights, or freedoms
    too bad you do not realize that
    too many people died preserving those rights for our citizens to be so uninformed
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Do you guys know what a causal relation ship error is?

    National Research Council, 2004: The initial model specification, when extended to new data, does not show evidence that passage of right-to-carry laws reduces crime. The estimated effects are highly sensitive to seemingly minor changes in the model specification and control variables. No link between right-to-carry laws and changes in crime is apparent in the raw data, even in the initial sample; it is only once numerous covariates are included that the negative results in the early data emerge. While the trend models show a reduction in the crime growth rate following the adoption of right-to-carry laws, these trend reductions occur long after law adoption, casting serious doubt on the proposition that the trend models estimated in the literature reflect effects of the law change. Finally, some of the point estimates are imprecise. Thus, the committee concludes that with the current evidence it is not possible to determine that there is a causal link between the passage of right-to-carry laws and crime rates.

    FactCheck.org : Gun Rhetoric vs. Gun Facts
    So you are arguing that we need more gun control laws yet, at the same time are asserting that they do little, if anything, to limit gun crime? Hmm...
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Plenty of questions, because that is NOT the whole picture. But when the CDC started asking them the NRA wigged out because the data that started coming in did not fit their pitch.
    Typical liberal bull****. Because they are asking the WRONG QUESTIONS...

    Are communities where more people carry guns safer or less safe? Does the availability of high-capacity magazines increase deaths? Do more rigorous background checks make a difference?

    Are all irrelevant when you have blacks and Hispanics dying in droves in major urban centers, and we know why. The fact is the shooting at Sandy hook was white kids, that is the only reason it got any attention. over 400 kids, yes kids died in Chicago last year, where the fxck was Obama than? Where was the CDC asking questions?

    Just more liberal hogwash is all you so far have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    actually, hoping against it
    and hope the politicians would effect much more stringent gun laws to prevent such a recurrence
    but your side wants it business as usual (at the over crowded gun store)
    and until gun law restrictions become more appropriate, and fully enforced, the likelihood of another sandy hook is increased ... only because your side opposes doing anything to quell such activities




    before, did they have Gabby Gifford's as the spokesmodel?
    and you should see her testimony before the congree ... ooops, i sure you already have
    which should answer your question
    she is being quite effective


    and you would again be wrong
    nothing should be elevated above our rights, or freedoms
    too bad you do not realize that
    too many people died preserving those rights for our citizens to be so uninformed
    You have no reall argument I already have noted it. You can move on any time now.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Benjii likes the protests...he'd be largely irrelevant without them. So he needs to speak where he knows there will be protests against him and that makes him responsible for the protests.
    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    You can successfully wipe your ass with toilet paper, that doesn't mean that you should.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Manta View Post
    Typical liberal bull****. Because they are asking the WRONG QUESTIONS...

    Are communities where more people carry guns safer or less safe? Does the availability of high-capacity magazines increase deaths? Do more rigorous background checks make a difference?
    *facepalm* First, what makes it a wrong question? Keep in mind that this is not a mutually exclusive thing.

    Second, you have been expounding not asking any of the questions. See how very, very dumb a response that was on their part…unless the NRA expected uncomfortable answers. Because if you are looking to sell snake oil the more ignorance there is the better.

    Are all irrelevant when you have blacks and Hispanics dying in droves in major urban centers, and we know why.
    Why, then?

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Things such as what is the relationship between the “violent offender” and the target. Do they know each other? Are they friends? Are they family? Are they the same person? Where did the firearm come from? What kind of firearm is it? What was the intended purpose of the act? What other contributing factors were involved? To what extent was the firearm a factor at all?

    You are basing that prescription on what?
    There are approx 20,000 deaths a year by violent means. The vast majority of them are inner city gang related and have nothing to do with weapons classifications, ballistics, etc. Want to deal with the problems? Start there.

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