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Thread: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

  1. #361
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is nonsense. Define "during the ban" and "now". Basically there are two "mass shootings" per year on average. Show us your statistics, and how you feel that they relate to the AWB/MCL laws. Remember that the AWB/MCL laws took absolutely no guns or magazines "off the streets" they simply did not add any more for those 9 years.

    "There were 7 mass shootings in 2012 and a record number of casualties."



    A Special Report on the Rise of Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    One of the reasons why I don't belong to the ABA is its idiot former president who claimed that the Second Amendment only protected state militias-a claim that got flushed with the Lautenberg amendment. But the ABA is about one kind of power and it despises alternative forms of power.

    how can weapons that are owned by millions of americans-were distributed to hundreds of thousands of americans by a government agency and only required that you have a clean record and a history of "Marksmanship practice" and are weapons that every civilian police department uses be considered "dangerous and unusual"?

    Because the federal government doesn't accept your claim that the general public has the same authority as does the police.
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "There were 7 mass shootings in 2012 and a record number of casualties."



    A Special Report on the Rise of Mass Shootings in America | Mother Jones
    OK, but which used AWs or HCMs, the things sought to be "controlled" or "banned"? To assert that banning these items will have an effect you must include the type of weapon used. This statistical use of handgun = shotgun = rifle = assualt weapon, as long as an injury or death occured (and ANY gun was used), has nothing to do with your argument for an AWB or MCL law. Remember the initial 24/7 media hype that an AR-15 was used in the CT shooting, then the story was "altered" to admit that was not really the case, yet NEVER given the 24/7 coverage of the "mistaken" version of that event.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 02-01-13 at 01:23 PM.
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    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

  4. #364
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Indeed! "The ABA continues to believe that our nation’s laws can be significantly strengthened by taking reasonable, commonsense steps that do not violate the constitutional right to bear arms as articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court in the landmark decision in District of Columbia v. Heller," Bellows writes.

    The Second Amendment doesn’t protect military-style assault weapons, Bellows says, and she quotes Justice Antonin Scalia to back the assertion. Scalia wrote Heller, which found that the Second Amendment protects the right to keep handguns for protection within the home.

    Some maintain that the Second Amendment should prevent regulation of assault weapons and high-capacity clips, Bellows notes in her remarks. The ABA, on the other hand, believes that “the individual right to bear arms under the Second Amendment must be understood to have some limits.” Second Amendment rights, she said, must be balanced against the need to protect citizens from especially dangerous weapons. Bellows says this recognition has supported regulation of fully automatic “machine guns” since the 1930s.

    She quotes a portion from Scalia’s Heller opinion in which he interprets a 1939 U.S. Supreme Court decision as giving Second Amendment protection to weapons “in common use at the time” of its adoption. According to Scalia, “We think that limitation is fairly supported by the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of ‘dangerous and unusual weapons.’ ”

    Quoting Scalia, ABA president says Second Amendment rights have limits - News - ABA Journal
    LOL! That is so friggin retarded. The statement I bolded just shows how you all gun control advocates are totally delusional. Protect citizens against GUNS? Really? OMG! STOP those guns from killing people right now!

    I guess people can get killed less with a different kind of gun or when a magazine holds less ammo, even though the murderer could have 10 magazines in his pockets. Somehow, I don't think the criminals and murderers are going to care very much about all these laws.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    LOL! That is so friggin retarded. The statement I bolded just shows how you all gun control advocates are totally delusional. Protect citizens against GUNS? Really? OMG! STOP those guns from killing people right now!

    I guess people can get killed less with a different kind of gun or when a magazine holds less ammo, even though the murderer could have 10 magazines in his pockets. Somehow, I don't think the criminals and murderers are going to care very much about all these laws.
    Brilliant logic you've got there, get rid of all the laws that criminals sometimes don't obey.
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Brilliant logic you've got there, get rid of all the laws that criminals sometimes don't obey.
    We ALREADY have laws in place. MURDER IS ILLEGAL. What is the purpose of more laws? What is the purpose of a magazine limitation? What do you think that will accomplish? Please do tell.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    OK, but which used AWs or HCMs, the things sought to be "controlled" or "banned"? To assert that banning these items will have an effect you must include the type of weapon used. This statistical use of handgun = shotgun = rifle = assualt weapon, as long as an injury or death occured (and ANY gun was used), has nothing to do with your argument for an AWB or MCL law. Remember the initial 24/7 media hype that an AR-15 was used in the CT shooting, then the story was "altered" to admit that was not really the case, yet NEVER given the 24/7 coverage of the "mistaken" version of that event.
    Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)

    Mass shootings are a unique feature of American life which have occurred consistently throughout history in every region of the country. The increased lethality of such incidents is made possible by the use of large capacity ammunition magazines (defined as more than 10-rounds) which enable a shooter to rapidly fire off as many as 100-rounds without having to reload the firearm. Designed for military use to kill greater numbers of people more effectively, large capacity ammunition magazines have facilitated some of the worst mass murders ever committed in the United States. As these incidents occur in every region of the country, restricting civilian access to these weapons is not a state specific problem. The federal government needs to take action to protect all Americans by reinstating the ban on large capacity ammunition magazines.

    This database provides an overview of significant mass shooting incidents in America (defined by the FBI as four or more victims killed), all of which involved large capacity ammunition magazines:

    Citizens Crime Commission of New York City - Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)



    Show me any year during the 1994 -2004 ban when as many were killed with HCMs as last year?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  8. #368
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    We ALREADY have laws in place. MURDER IS ILLEGAL. What is the purpose of more laws? What is the purpose of a magazine limitation? What do you think that will accomplish? Please do tell.
    The current gun laws are unenforcable because the organization in charge of enforcing gun laws, the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms, has been gutted and rendered ineffective because of spending cuts imposed on it by conservatives who believe the organization serves no purpose.
    Last edited by Unitedwestand13; 02-01-13 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Meant to say unenforcable

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    We ALREADY have laws in place. MURDER IS ILLEGAL. What is the purpose of more laws? What is the purpose of a magazine limitation? What do you think that will accomplish? Please do tell.
    By your logic, murder shouldn't be illegal because criminals still murder people.

    The purpose of the magazine limitation is to reduce the number of people being killed in mass murders in the US. Are you aware there were a record number last year?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)

    Mass shootings are a unique feature of American life which have occurred consistently throughout history in every region of the country. The increased lethality of such incidents is made possible by the use of large capacity ammunition magazines (defined as more than 10-rounds) which enable a shooter to rapidly fire off as many as 100-rounds without having to reload the firearm. Designed for military use to kill greater numbers of people more effectively, large capacity ammunition magazines have facilitated some of the worst mass murders ever committed in the United States. As these incidents occur in every region of the country, restricting civilian access to these weapons is not a state specific problem. The federal government needs to take action to protect all Americans by reinstating the ban on large capacity ammunition magazines.

    This database provides an overview of significant mass shooting incidents in America (defined by the FBI as four or more victims killed), all of which involved large capacity ammunition magazines:

    Citizens Crime Commission of New York City - Mass Shooting Incidents in America (1984-2012)



    Show me any year during the 1994 -2004 ban when as many were killed with HCMs as last year?
    Defining "high capacity magazine" is like defining "high speed internet" or "high speed computer chip", it is constantly changing but usually UPWARDS and varies widely by the size of the round and the intended use of the gun. "Average" pistols hold between 6 and 17 rounds, so for a pistol "high capacity" would be anything over 17 rounds (my .380 pistol holds 15 rounds).

    High capacity magazine - An inexact, non-technical term indicating a magazine holding more rounds than might be considered "average.".

    What Are Considered High Capacity Gun Magazines? | eHow.com

    High-Capacity-Magazine Bans - Clayton E. Cramer - National Review Online
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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