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Thread: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Only with the extreme far right!
    And to me also. Can you answer my questions please?

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    .......
    "For more than a hundred years, the answer was clear, even if the words of the amendment itself were not.

    The text of the amendment is divided into two clauses and is, as a whole, ungrammatical: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” The courts had found that the first part, the “militia clause,” trumped the second part, the “bear arms” clause. In other words, according to the Supreme Court, and the lower courts as well, the amendment conferred on state militias a right to bear arms—but did not give individuals a right to own or carry a weapon."

    "Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights theory of the amendment as “a fraud.”

    So You Think You Know the Second Amendment? : The New Yorker
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    What is the cost of multiple semi-automatic handguns?
    A decent (Ruger or Taurus) 9mm is about $350 new so you could get 3 (plus some extra magazines) for the price of a new AR-15. The ammo is also cheaper and lighter.

    Ruger 45.jpg
    Cabela's: Ruger P-Series Semiautomatic Centerfire Pistols

    Taurus 45.jpg
    Cabela's: Taurus Millennium Pro Pistols
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "For more than a hundred years, the answer was clear, even if the words of the amendment itself were not.

    The text of the amendment is divided into two clauses and is, as a whole, ungrammatical: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” The courts had found that the first part, the “militia clause,” trumped the second part, the “bear arms” clause. In other words, according to the Supreme Court, and the lower courts as well, the amendment conferred on state militias a right to bear arms—but did not give individuals a right to own or carry a weapon."

    "Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights theory of the amendment as “a fraud.”

    So You Think You Know the Second Amendment? : The New Yorker
    That's a blog. I quoted the Supreme Court and the Constitution directly. Your blog is factually incorrect, which invalidates your statement, which invalidates your opinion.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    "For more than a hundred years, the answer was clear, even if the words of the amendment itself were not.

    The text of the amendment is divided into two clauses and is, as a whole, ungrammatical: “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.” The courts had found that the first part, the “militia clause,” trumped the second part, the “bear arms” clause. In other words, according to the Supreme Court, and the lower courts as well, the amendment conferred on state militias a right to bear arms—but did not give individuals a right to own or carry a weapon."

    "Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights theory of the amendment as “a fraud.”

    So You Think You Know the Second Amendment? : The New Yorker
    Considering the FACT that we are...what...240 years into our existence as a country and the private citizen always has and still does have the right to keep and bear military grade weapons, I'd say it is a safe bet Burger and you are both very much in the minority in your opinion. Wouldnt you?

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    A decent (Ruger or Taurus) 9mm is about $350 new so you could get 3 (plus some extra magazines) for the price of a new AR-15.
    Not quite. From just a quick check:

    "If you really want to be a cheap bastard on this but still remain competitive, something to look at is Kel Tec’s SU-16A. One like this one seen being used by a member of an all-female 3-gun team at a recent competition who were quite competitive. The base model clocks in with an MSRP of $665 and is compatible with AR-15 mags, so you won’t need to buy all new gear when you decide to make the next move. "

    Ask Foghorn: Best Budget AR-15 for Cheap Bastards | The Truth About Guns

    That's a $385 difference. Higher price means restricted accessibility.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    That's a blog. I quoted the Supreme Court and the Constitution directly. Your blog is factually incorrect, which invalidates your statement, which invalidates your opinion.
    A blog that featured the opinion of Constitutional Scholar, Jeffrey Toobin. Your quote did not disprove what Mr. Toobin stated.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Not quite. From just a quick check:

    "If you really want to be a cheap bastard on this but still remain competitive, something to look at is Kel Tec’s SU-16A. One like this one seen being used by a member of an all-female 3-gun team at a recent competition who were quite competitive. The base model clocks in with an MSRP of $665 and is compatible with AR-15 mags, so you won’t need to buy all new gear when you decide to make the next move. "

    Ask Foghorn: Best Budget AR-15 for Cheap Bastards | The Truth About Guns

    That's a $385 difference. Higher price means restricted accessibility.
    I was under the impression that money was not the real object, especially if the mission includes suicide - then who cares about cost? On the other hand, if you wish to commit multiple crimes, and actually get away with them, then that big AW is not exactly hard to recognize going in and out of buildings.

    Cheaper pistols can be had as well, but I was offereing some fairly decent tools here. Also after the AWB/HCM laws options may be limitted, so adaptation is key, even for nut jobs and criminals.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Considering the FACT that we are...what...240 years into our existence as a country and the private citizen always has and still does have the right to keep and bear military grade weapons, I'd say it is a safe bet Burger and you are both very much in the minority in your opinion. Wouldnt you?

    I am not arguing that the present day interpretation by the courts that the 2nd Amendment applies to individuals. That doesn't however mean that it wasn't interpreted by the courts for a century to mean a state militia and not individual right to bear arms. Under a more liberal court, the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment may change again in the future.

    And getting back to the OP, it doesn't mean that a ban on high capacity magazines would necessarily be ruled to be an infringement of the 2nd Amendment.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I was under the impression that money was not the real object, especially if the mission includes suicide - then who cares about cost? On the other hand, if you wish to commit multiple crimes, and actually get away with them, then that big AW is not exactly hard to recognize going in and out of buildings.

    Cheaper pistols can be had as well, but I was offereing some fairly decent tools here. Also after the AWB/HCM laws options may be limitted, so adaptation is key, even for nut jobs and criminals.
    Part of reducing accessibility to criminals and crazies is increasing costs.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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