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Thread: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

  1. #131
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    So lets counter with another extraordinarily self serving article...

    The Washington Times
    Thursday, July 02, 1998
    Commentary Section
    Gun control decoys on the firing range
    By James Bovard
    "The Justice Department announced on June 21 that presale handgun background checks mandated by the Brady law and by state laws resulted in 69,000 people being denied permission to purchase guns in 1997.

    But the Justice Department's estimates did not even maintain credibility for a week. The Indianapolis Star and News reported on June 24 that the Justice Department exaggerated by 1,300 percent the number of gun buyers turned down in Indiana because of the Brady Act. White House spokeswoman Nanda Chitre conceded the same day that President Clinton had exaggerated the number of people stopped from buying guns by the Brady Act and that White House counsel Rahm Emanuel had greatly exaggerated the number of newly bought guns used in homicides."


    "This is not the first time Clinton administration numbers on the Brady Act have gone down in disgrace. A 1996 General Accounting Office report found that the data used to estimate nationwide denials under the Brady act are extremely unreliable. For instance, arrests are sometimes counted the same as convictions - and the fact that a person was once arrested (though later found innocent) could be used to deny their request to buy a firearm. GAO found almost half of all rejections under the Brady Act were due to paperwork problems or traffic violations, not to criminal records."

    "Despite Clinton administration claims on how dangerous illicit gun buyers are, the federal government prosecutes fewer than 1 in 1,000 violators. The number of convictions from prosecutions for making false statements on Brady forms declined from 253 in 1994 to 36 in 1997."



    "Nor has the Brady Act been a significant factor in reducing crime. Violent crime rates have declined more rapidly in states not covered by the Brady Act (because they have instant background checks, or other reasons) than in other states. In fact, according to University of Chicago professor John Lott, author of the newly published "More Guns, Less Crime," the Brady Act is actually responsible for "significant increase in rapes and aggravated assaults." The Brady Act banned law enforcement agencies from using background check information to compile registration lists of gun owners. But some law enforcement agencies blatantly violate this provision of the law. National Rifle Association Vice President Neal Knox recently observed, "Some local and state agencies, such as the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation and Identification, have been caught maintaining computerized records of Brady purchases despite the clear prosecutions have resulted."

  2. #132
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Your claim that it is illegal for someone to apply for gun purchase and be denied, remains undocumented.
    See post 131. Of course...they didnt tell you what to say in response to the whole arrest and prosecution thing for some reason.

    Its funny bro...they made the sound come from you and I didnt even see their lips move!

  3. #133
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    The GAO thinks Brady is a joke...

    A team of Congressional special agents was able to bypass Brady Act background checks and successfully purchase firearms using fake IDs in all five states where they tried, according to a March 19, 2001 General Accounting Office.

    The investigation was conducted by the General Accounting Office at the request of U.S. Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-CA), ranking minority member of the House Committee on Government Reform.

    Agents purchased firearms from licensed dealers in Virginia, West Virginia, Montana, New Mexico, and Arizona from late October 2000 through February 2001. All five states conform to minimum requirements of the Brady Act, relying on instant background checks, but do not require fingerprinting or waiting periods for firearms purchases. The gun stores and pawnshops visited were selected at random from the yellow pages of local telephone directories. The investigation was conducted in accordance with investigative standards established by the President's Council on Integrity and Efficiency.

    State-level background checks required in Virginia and Arizona also failed to catch the fake IDs.

    Based on their investigation, GAO concluded that in the five states, "the instant background check does not positively identify purchasers of firearms," and that it "cannot ensure that the prospective purchaser is not a felon."

    According to the report, "the instant background check does not positively identify purchasers of firearms. Rather, it is a negative check that cannot ensure that the prospective purchaser is not a felon or other prohibited person whose receipt and possession of a firearm would be unlawful."

    Fake ID's Foil Brady Checks - GAO

  4. #134
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Heck, even NAMI thinks its BS...

    The U.S. Surgeon General has determined that the likelihood of violence from people with mental illness is low. There are many reasons why violence occurs in our society, many of which have nothing or little to do with mental illness. In contrast to the mayors’ report, National Public Radio last week broadcast a balanced discussion on “The Law—and the Reality—of Gun Access.” Federal law currently bars certain categories of individuals—including some with a history of mental illness—from purchasing or owning guns. Potential purchasers are screened through the NICS.

    NAMI Blog: Gun Laws and Mental Health

  5. #135
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    So lets counter with another extraordinarily self serving article...
    Since you you were unable to document your previous claim............Ok, let's see what you've got this time:


    The Washington Times
    Thursday, July 02, 1998
    Commentary Section
    Gun control decoys on the firing range
    By James Bovard
    [INDENT] "The Justice Department announced on June 21 that presale handgun background checks mandated by the Brady law and by state laws resulted in 69,000 people being denied permission to purchase guns in 1997.

    But the Justice Department's estimates did not even maintain credibility for a week. The Indianapolis Star and News reported on June 24 that the Justice Department exaggerated by 1,300 percent the number of gun buyers turned down in Indiana because of the Brady Act. White House spokeswoman Nanda Chitre conceded the same day that President Clinton had exaggerated the number of people stopped from buying guns by the Brady Act and that White House counsel Rahm Emanuel had greatly exaggerated the number of newly bought guns used in homicides."


    "This is not the first time Clinton administration numbers on the Brady Act have gone down in disgrace. A 1996 General Accounting Office report found that the data used to estimate nationwide denials under the Brady act are extremely unreliable. For instance, arrests are sometimes counted the same as convictions - and the fact that a person was once arrested (though later found innocent) could be used to deny their request to buy a firearm. GAO found almost half of all rejections under the Brady Act were due to paperwork problems or traffic violations, not to criminal records."

    "Despite Clinton administration claims on how dangerous illicit gun buyers are, the federal government prosecutes fewer than 1 in 1,000 violators. The number of convictions from prosecutions for making false statements on Brady forms declined from 253 in 1994 to 36 in 1997."



    "Nor has the Brady Act been a significant factor in reducing crime. Violent crime rates have declined more rapidly in states not covered by the Brady Act (because they have instant background checks, or other reasons) than in other states. In fact, according to University of Chicago professor John Lott, author of the newly published "More Guns, Less Crime," the Brady Act is actually responsible for "significant increase in rapes and aggravated assaults." The Brady Act banned law enforcement agencies from using background check information to compile registration lists of gun owners. But some law enforcement agencies blatantly violate this provision of the law. National Rifle Association Vice President Neal Knox recently observed, "Some local and state agencies, such as the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation and Identification, have been caught maintaining computerized records of Brady purchases despite the clear prosecutions have resulted."
    Do you expect anyone other than the far right to accept the word of a single newspaper over DOJ statistics?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    ** "Brady may not directly result in measurable reductions of gun-related crimes." (General Accounting Office,"Implementation of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act," Report to the Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. Senate, and the Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. House of Representatives, GAO/GGD-96-22 Gun Control, January 1996, p. 8)

    Of 250 cases referred for prosecution during Brady`s first year, 217 were rejected. ("Implementation of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act," Report to the Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. Senate, and the Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. House of Representatives, GAO/GGD-96-22 Gun Control, January 1996, pp. 8, 45)

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Since you you were unable to document your previous claim............Ok, let's see what you've got this time:




    Do you expect anyone other than the far right to accept the word of a single newspaper over DOJ statistics?
    GOA reports anyone?

    Maybe you can send the Brady people an email and ask them what you should say when you get asked actual QUESTIONS about your little talking point snippet.

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The GAO thinks Brady is a joke...

    A team of Congressional special agents was able to bypass Brady Act background checks and successfully purchase firearms using fake IDs in all five states where they tried, according to a March 19, 2001 General Accounting Office.

    The investigation was conducted by the General Accounting Office at the request of U.S. Rep. Henry A. Waxman (D-CA), ranking minority member of the House Committee on Government Reform.

    Agents purchased firearms from licensed dealers in Virginia, West Virginia, Montana, New Mexico, and Arizona from late October 2000 through February 2001. All five states conform to minimum requirements of the Brady Act, relying on instant background checks, but do not require fingerprinting or waiting periods for firearms purchases. The gun stores and pawnshops visited were selected at random from the yellow pages of local telephone directories. The investigation was conducted in accordance with investigative standards established by the President's Council on Integrity and Efficiency.

    State-level background checks required in Virginia and Arizona also failed to catch the fake IDs.

    Based on their investigation, GAO concluded that in the five states, "the instant background check does not positively identify purchasers of firearms," and that it "cannot ensure that the prospective purchaser is not a felon."

    According to the report, "the instant background check does not positively identify purchasers of firearms. Rather, it is a negative check that cannot ensure that the prospective purchaser is not a felon or other prohibited person whose receipt and possession of a firearm would be unlawful."

    Fake ID's Foil Brady Checks - GAO

    I'm sure some slip through, which is why I support beefing up the background checks.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  9. #139
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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    The General Accounting Office reported that during the Act`s first year, 95.2% of handgun purchase applicants were approved without a hitch. Of the denials, nearly half were due to traffic tickets or administrative problems with application forms (including sending forms to the wrong law enforcement agency). ("Implementation of the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act," Report to theCommittee on the Judiciary, U.S. Senate, and the Committee on the Judiciary, U.S. House of Representatives, GAO/GGD-96-22, Jan. 1996, pp. 64-66)

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    Re: Senate gun hearing opens with Giffords' call for action

    GAO reports that "Only 4 of the 15 jurisdictions (studied) had sufficiently detailed records to permit GAO to quantify denials based on violent crimes. GAO found that denials of applicants who had been convicted of or indicted for aggravated assault, murder, rape, or robbery totaled 371 and represented 0.2 percent of the applications and 4.9 percent of the denials in these 4 jurisdictions." (GAO, p. 6)

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