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McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue


Yes. It's called realism.

Exhibit 1: Lessons that a Party lose the support of the vast majority of a voting group for long periods of time (see African American voting patterns)
Exhibit 2: Growing share of the U.S. population that is comprised of Hispanics, a demographic trend that is forecast to continue for at least decades according to the Census Bureau
Exhibit 3: Growing losses of the share of the Hispanic vote won by GOP Presidential candidates (including the loss of the GOP-friendly Cuban vote in Florida)
Exhibit 4: Multiple states in which the Hispanic vote decided the outcome e.g., Florida, during the 2012 Presidential election
Exhibit 5: States that had shifted from competitive to reliable blue states (California, New Jersey, etc.) and others currently transitioning from red to purple to possibly blue in the long-term (Virginia, Florida, Colorado, New Mexico--with speculation that Texas, too could ultimately move into transition)

The "new math" of scorched earth immigration policy proponents that ignores the growing importance of the Hispanic voting segment only adds up to electoral defeat. Senators McCain, Rubio, and others see the reality of what's happening. They are not prepared to risk an enduring loss of the vast majority of Hispanic voters, a voting segment that will continue to grow given the nation's evolving demographics.
 
McCain is a disgusting liberal who needs to get off the world stage and drift off into a blissfully unaware retirement

It's this weird desire for ideological purity (calling McCain a liberal!) that has doomed the tea party occupied GOP to marginal status in all future elections.

Thank you tea party for killing the wicked witch once and for all.
 
It's this weird desire for ideological purity (calling McCain a liberal!) that has doomed the tea party occupied GOP to marginal status in all future elections.

Thank you tea party for killing the wicked witch once and for all.

Nonsense, McCain was never anything but a wishy-washy politician who will jump at anything that he calculates will give him electoral relevency. It's why so many of us voted for Obama against him for POTUS. Obama (then largely an unknown factor) looked a lot more attractive when the competition was McCain (largely known and reviled).
 
Nonsense, McCain was never anything but a wishy-washy politician who will jump at anything that he calculates will give him electoral relevency. It's why so many of us voted for Obama against him for POTUS. Obama (then largely an unknown factor) looked a lot more attractive when the competition was McCain (largely known and reviled).

The No True Scotsman argument just keeps happening with the tea party, and when it's done they'll only be abot 6 true scotsmen in the country. Thank God.
 
GOP lost 4% from Hispanic vote totals after the 1986 amnesty program. Single issue voters don't exist.

Unless they're black people who apparently only want welfare. Lolz.
 
Jesus, first Christie, now McCain?
 
Unless they're black people who apparently only want welfare. Lolz.

Black people and latinos only vote Democrat for handouts. Women voted for Obama because he's handsome or whatever. Or they also want handouts like.. birth control pills and breast exams.

But straight white Republican men? They vote on principle, rational beliefs, etc. Nobody else.
 
Yes. It's called realism.
That's cynicism -- you're mistaken.

It's also cowardly capitulation to what by all ethics should be irrelevant.

Realistic is focusing on the approximately 100 million Americans who were eligible to vote but didn't vote.

These people aren't race this or that, they're simply fed up with extremist policy from both wing-nut parties.


Exhibit 1: Lessons that a Party lose the support of the vast majority of a voting group for long periods of time (see African American voting patterns)
Exhibit 2: Growing share of the U.S. population that is comprised of Hispanics, a demographic trend that is forecast to continue for at least decades according to the Census Bureau
Exhibit 3: Growing losses of the share of the Hispanic vote won by GOP Presidential candidates (including the loss of the GOP-friendly Cuban vote in Florida)
Exhibit 4: Multiple states in which the Hispanic vote decided the outcome e.g., Florida, during the 2012 Presidential election
Exhibit 5: States that had shifted from competitive to reliable blue states (California, New Jersey, etc.) and others currently transitioning from red to purple to possibly blue in the long-term (Virginia, Florida, Colorado, New Mexico--with speculation that Texas, too could ultimately move into transition)
There's nothing of any significant consequence that the conservative Repubs can do about these matters and still remain who they are: conservative Repubs.

If they jump on the amnesty and legalization bandwagon they will get their clock cleaned even more, as the millions of additional votes from former illegals will simply go to the liberal Dems anyway.

Much of the challenge for the conservative Repubs is in their support of business owners/managers over workers, and for whatever reasons that most business owners/managers might be White-Caucasian then that's going to mean a greater percentage of non-White-Caucasians will be workers.

That's the challenge for the conservative Repubs.

There's nothing they can do about racial breakdown, to change those percentages in the demographic.

Even if they jump on the amnesty and legalization bandwagon, they'll still lose in the owners/managers v. workers numbers, and that's the real issue here, not race as you've inaccurately portrayed it and so many others have baited it.

Since the conservative Repubs will definitely be dead if they cave to amnesty and legalization, because all the new low-wage former illegals will be siding with the liberal Dems on owner/manager v. worker issues, their best hope for survival is: 1) to block amnesty and legalization, and 2) find a way to appeal to the 100 million eligible voters who didn't vote this past November.

The "new math" of scorched earth immigration policy proponents that ignores the growing importance of the Hispanic voting segment only adds up to electoral defeat.
No, not true.

First of all, your portrayal of "scorched earth" really implies that voting any more is all about race, when it's not, and that the crimes committed by illegals aren't really crimes at all, when in truth they are huge and serious crimes for sure.

But even if that's what voter basis in America has descended to, this is still a constitutional republic, not a "democratic" republic. We elect representatives who are free to decide each issue as it comes up, supposedly in the best interest of American citizens.

Candidates, like Obama did in November, may pander to a race, like Hispanic-Latinos, and thus race-bait, but only dangerous ideologues will be compelled to blindly follow up on that.

Each issue that elected officials must deal with needs to be addressed on its own terms at the time, after the election, analyzed critically and completely, and action needs to be taken to serve American citizens as a whole, doing no unnecessary discriminating harm to any group.

Here you imply that "Hispanics will vote for the party that is likely to legalizes illegals because that's the overriding desire of Hispanic Americans in choosing whom to vote for".

However, in so doing, you just cast all Hispanics as unethical, immoral, and unjust, saying that "Hispanic Americans don't care that others of their race committed terrible crimes against American citizens of all races, crimes of trespassing, identity-forging, and jobs/classrooms/other resource stealing, because justice and the rule of law in America is comparatively meaningless to Hispanics in this regard".

That's what you're saying.

You thereby create a bigotry about Hispanic Americans .. and your aforementioned list of why candidates need to kowtow to "Hispanics" is merely a laundry list of excuses for your bigotry.


Senators McCain, Rubio, and others see the reality of what's happening.
You truly don't know what "they" see.

Rubio, for one, is setting up support for "immigration reform" contingent on the first step before anything being that the borders be completely and securely closed.

Since Obama, Reid, and the rest of the liberal Dems will never agree to that, since evidence of the complete and secure closure of our borders will take years to be seen, it's entirely possible that Rubio is just pandering to Hispanic-Latinos in posture .. but really is making sure "immigration reform" (read: amnesty, legalization, and citizenship for 20 million illegals) never happens.

From a rational citizen-support position, it's huge that the borders first be closed and secure and evidenced thusly, as if amnesty and legalization happens without that, we'll have 100 million illegals trespassing en masse within the year!

As for McCain, he's always been a loose cannon here and there .. but he's likely only concerned with the power-play, not supporting American citizens.

So your assumption about what others see simply does not fit the evidence to the contrary.


They are not prepared to risk an enduring loss of the vast majority of Hispanic voters, a voting segment that will continue to grow given the nation's evolving demographics.
Your bigoted portrayal of Hispanic-Latinos, that they're all about race and respond to race-baiting and they're unethical, immoral, care not about the rule of law and justice for wronged American citizens .. is simply and egregiously false.

The reality here is owner/manager v. worker, and, due to the low-income nature of illegals' work pay, the liberal Dems will garner much of the worker support of former illegals if amnesty, legalization, and citizenship for illegals occurs, which not only includes the illegals, but others, for whatever reason, of particular classes.
 
Look, conservatives, being in favor of immigration reform doesn't mean someone is "pro-illegal."
Though I'm not a conservative ..

.. "Immigration reform" is code-speak for amnesty, legalization and citizenship for 20 million trespassers, identity-forgers, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealers of American citizen belongings, thumbing one's nose at both the rule of law and justice for all, "justice for all" as we state in our pledge of allegiance.

The 20 million illegals are criminals, nothing more, not "immigrants".

Those who favor "immigration reform", yeah maybe "pro-illegal" is a bit inaccurate, but whatever short term fits what I just described, that's what such Benedict Arnolds are, assuming such supporters ar indeed American citizens.


The reason we have so many illegal immigrants in this country is because our immigration policy is completely ridiculous.
Absolutely false!

The reason we have so many illegals in America is because the American standard of living is world famous, many illegals come from third-world countries where there is a ton of impoverished people at the same level of impoverishment as only some Americans, and because we don't have our borders closed and secure as we obviously, given our attractiveness, need to do .. and because, of course, some people don't care about respecting the laws of other nations, laws against trespassing, identity-forging, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealing of the belongings of that country's citizens.

That's why we have so many illegals in America.

The only thing wrong with our current laws and policy is that we aren't enforcing them; there's simply no need for any "reform".

Immigration regulations exist to protect citizens from disease, criminals, and invasion, and to protect citizens from over-crowding and resource exhaustion.

Our current immigration policy is a good thing .. and, topically speaking, D.C. politicians are more concerned about getting reelected than doing right by American citizens.


It takes years, thousands of dollars in legal fees, and is sometimes literally impossible.
It is especially important during a recession or post-recession where unemployment is still painfully high -- currently around 14%, the true unemployment rate -- to make it difficult to add new legal immigrants and citizens until previously legal immigrants and citizens can get employed again.

And, with all the over-crowding of our cities and roads and emergency care centers that have caused many to close .. well, there are really good reasons why immigration takes so much time and expense.

That just makes sense.

If people in other countries like our standard of living so much, why don't they just create it for themselves in their country?

Oh .. because they've over-populated their country already, so they can't do that so easily, and many of them just want to flee to America where it's less crowded .. for now ..

.. Or because such an effort would take sacrifice, just like Americans made great sacrifices to get where we are today, to create a sought-after standard of living.

Regardless, instead of belly-aching about how tough it is to get into America legally, illegals should be self-deporting, returning to their country from which they came, and then fighting hard for reform there!

That's the right, ethical, and moral thing to do.


But hey, keep talking about hispanics as if they vote only based on handouts. I'm sure that really appeals to them and will help your electoral odds in the future. :lamo
I mean jeez, nobody's expecting you to give them handouts, but if you would just stop talking about them as if they are less than human, maybe they'd hate you less?
But here that's what you've really said Hispanic-Latinos are all about: supporting handouts in the form of Hispanic-Latinos being allowed to trespass and thus receive the hand-out of American soil they haven't earned, to forge identities and thus receive the hand-out of authorization that isn't rightfully theirs, and to take from American citizens their jobs/classrooms/other-resources and thus receive the hand-out of stolen ill-gotten gains that they simply do not ethically, morally, and legally deserve! :shock:

It is you pro-illegals -- good enough term, I suppose -- who are creating a bigoted spin on Hispanic-Latinos .. and also completely ignoring that 25% of illegals aren't even Hispanic-Latino!

That will eventually catch up to your political party. :cool:
 
The Republican Party can not win a national election if it continues to ignore the Hispanic vote.

They don't care about winning a national election, because if you win, it means you actually have to...you know...govern. Since the TeaPublicans don't actually believe in government, the last thing they want to do is win.
 
Black people and latinos only vote Democrat for handouts. Women voted for Obama because he's handsome or whatever. Or they also want handouts like.. birth control pills and breast exams.

But straight white Republican men? They vote on principle, rational beliefs, etc. Nobody else.

Every time I think I've read the funniest post ever on this forum, somebody comes along and proves me wrong. Every single statement in this rant is wrong.
 
Hey, I would just try to learn to adapt and improvise if I were you guys. What else can you do?

The world is going in the other direction from where you want it to go. I don't think you can redirect it's course.

Maybe take up a new hobby.

They say if life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

Well, there's always emigration to a country that shares their political philosophy. Saudi Arabia comes to mind.
 
Though I'm not a conservative ..

.. "Immigration reform" is code-speak for amnesty, legalization and citizenship for 20 million trespassers, identity-forgers, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealers of American citizen belongings, thumbing one's nose at both the rule of law and justice for all, "justice for all" as we state in our pledge of allegiance.

The 20 million illegals are criminals, nothing more, not "immigrants".

Those who favor "immigration reform", yeah maybe "pro-illegal" is a bit inaccurate, but whatever short term fits what I just described, that's what such Benedict Arnolds are, assuming such supporters ar indeed American citizens.



Absolutely false!

The reason we have so many illegals in America is because the American standard of living is world famous, many illegals come from third-world countries where there is a ton of impoverished people at the same level of impoverishment as only some Americans, and because we don't have our borders closed and secure as we obviously, given our attractiveness, need to do .. and because, of course, some people don't care about respecting the laws of other nations, laws against trespassing, identity-forging, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealing of the belongings of that country's citizens.

That's why we have so many illegals in America.

The only thing wrong with our current laws and policy is that we aren't enforcing them; there's simply no need for any "reform".

Immigration regulations exist to protect citizens from disease, criminals, and invasion, and to protect citizens from over-crowding and resource exhaustion.

Our current immigration policy is a good thing .. and, topically speaking, D.C. politicians are more concerned about getting reelected than doing right by American citizens.



It is especially important during a recession or post-recession where unemployment is still painfully high -- currently around 14%, the true unemployment rate -- to make it difficult to add new legal immigrants and citizens until previously legal immigrants and citizens can get employed again.

And, with all the over-crowding of our cities and roads and emergency care centers that have caused many to close .. well, there are really good reasons why immigration takes so much time and expense.

That just makes sense.

If people in other countries like our standard of living so much, why don't they just create it for themselves in their country?

Oh .. because they've over-populated their country already, so they can't do that so easily, and many of them just want to flee to America where it's less crowded .. for now ..

.. Or because such an effort would take sacrifice, just like Americans made great sacrifices to get where we are today, to create a sought-after standard of living.

Regardless, instead of belly-aching about how tough it is to get into America legally, illegals should be self-deporting, returning to their country from which they came, and then fighting hard for reform there!

That's the right, ethical, and moral thing to do.



But here that's what you've really said Hispanic-Latinos are all about: supporting handouts in the form of Hispanic-Latinos being allowed to trespass and thus receive the hand-out of American soil they haven't earned, to forge identities and thus receive the hand-out of authorization that isn't rightfully theirs, and to take from American citizens their jobs/classrooms/other-resources and thus receive the hand-out of stolen ill-gotten gains that they simply do not ethically, morally, and legally deserve! :shock:

It is you pro-illegals -- good enough term, I suppose -- who are creating a bigoted spin on Hispanic-Latinos .. and also completely ignoring that 25% of illegals aren't even Hispanic-Latino!

That will eventually catch up to your political party. :cool:

I've read every single post in this thread and I have concluded you are a pretty bright guy. I just have two questions. In this post you say you are not a conservative, and your lean says that you are a centrist. What, in your opinion, is the difference between a centrist and a conservative? On what issues would you differ from the conservative position?
 
I've read every single post in this thread and I have concluded you are a pretty bright guy. I just have two questions. In this post you say you are not a conservative, and your lean says that you are a centrist. What, in your opinion, is the difference between a centrist and a conservative? On what issues would you differ from the conservative position?
Post your question here as an OP in a new thread, and I'll be glad to answer your general question as to how centrists and conservatives differ on the issues.

But I don't want to derail this thread.
 
Every time I think I've read the funniest post ever on this forum, somebody comes along and proves me wrong. Every single statement in this rant is wrong.

I know a guy who can take a look at your sarcasm detector.
 
The Republican Party can not win a national election if it continues to ignore the Hispanic vote.


The Republican Party doesn't ignore Hispanics. In fact there are more Republican Hispanic Governors than Democrat Hispanic Governors. Same true with the Senate in Congress.

Take a look at the House of Representatives. Look at the election results of all Republican and Democrat Hispanic Representatives. You'll notice the the Republican Hispanic Congressmen or women were elected by mostly whites. Also look at the total numbers of votes that were casted at the polls. You'll notice there was around 200,000 votes casted in that Congressional District.

Now look at the Democrat Hispanics members in the House. They come from highly Hispanic / Latino Congressional Districts. Now look at how many votes were cast, usually around 100,000. Usually in these districts, there aren't that many U.S. citizens living in these districts.

Look at the leadership of the GOP. You'll find more Hispanics than you will in the Democrat Party organizations around the country. A perfect example would be the GOP "California Republican Assembly." The President of the CRA is a Hispanic, a naturalized citizen, Celeste Greg. She doesn't have a Hispanic surname because she married a U.S. Marine, a decorated combat veteran of the battle of Iwo Jima.

BTW: The CRA was the Republican organization that Ronald Reagan hooked up with after the Democrat Party left him.

Amnesty isn't a big issue with most U.S. citizens Hispanics.

If the Republican Party was spitting on the "Rule of Law" and advocating blanket amnesty for all illegal aliens and open borders. And the Democrat Party was for the "Rule of Law" and advocating that our borders be secured and that the immigration laws that are on the books be enforce, 2/3 of the Hispanic voters would still vote the Democrat Party because the Democrat Party offers free stuff for their votes.

It has become a cultural thing. 1/2 of all Mexican Latino voters are either naturalized citizens, anchor babies or sons or daughters of legal immigrant parents. A recent study just released last year on Latinos of Mexican decent shows that the vast majority believe that government is the source for prosperity. And the Democrat Party offers free stuff. When over half of all legal Latino immigrants are on the doe and receiving some form of public assistance and this is also true with 50 % of all Latino illegal aliens. That's a huge number of people who are dependent on government.

Why do you think the Democrat Party wants just not reward amnesty to 20 million law breakers but also speed up a passage to citizenship ? These newly legal residents and future citizens and voters will have a monkey on their backs, the government. They will become dependent on government. And when your dependent on government, you vote the Democrat ticket.

Once you have that government monkey on your back, your addicted. The only way to kick that habit and get that monkey off your back are conservative Republican policies.
 
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Post your question here as an OP in a new thread, and I'll be glad to answer your general question as to how centrists and conservatives differ on the issues.

But I don't want to derail this thread.

Actually, I'm not sure such a thread would be allowed.
 
Actually, I'm not sure such a thread would be allowed.
I've seen similar threads; there's nothing in the rules that disallow such threads.
 
Well, I don't understand the difficulty in you responding to the question. You stated in your post that you weren't a conservative. I think my questions could have been answered in this thread without any 'derailing'. Frankly, I'm just interested in how people claim to be something and/or deny being something when every single post they make screams exactly the opposite.

If you choose not to answer, that's OK too.
 
There's nothing of any significant consequence that the conservative Repubs can do about these matters and still remain who they are: conservative Repubs.

A scorched earth immigration approach is not a requirement of conservatism and never has been. Indeed, President Reagan took a different approach.
 
A scorched earth immigration approach is not a requirement of conservatism and never has been. Indeed, President Reagan took a different approach.
There's no such thing as a "scorched earth" immigration approach. :roll:

So your creation and use of that nonsense term is meaningless rhetoric designed to spin the focus away from the 20 million law-breaking criminals. :shock:

This issue rightly isn't one of immigration at all.

It's a law, enforcement, and justice-for-U.S.-citizens issue, nothing more.

The 20 million illegals are not "immigrants" -- they're simply criminals.

As to the separate topic of immigration, our current laws are just fine.

If people find it long and difficult to get into America, it's because we've yet to get our own citizens and legal immigrants back to work, and thus it should be very difficult for people to immigrate to America until we have jobs for them we can't fill with our own people and until we have available resources for them that won't create over-crowding of our land, cities, roads, and an undue drain on water, classrooms, emergency care facilities and other critical resources.

That simply makes good sense.

And if people in other countries don't like that, that it takes too long and too much effort to immigrate here to a land of supposed higher standard of living, I strongly suggest they get to courageous work and make necessary changes in their own country to achieve the higher standard of living they seek. :cool:
 
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