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Thread: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Jesus, first Christie, now McCain?
    "Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough."
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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Unless they're black people who apparently only want welfare. Lolz.
    Black people and latinos only vote Democrat for handouts. Women voted for Obama because he's handsome or whatever. Or they also want handouts like.. birth control pills and breast exams.

    But straight white Republican men? They vote on principle, rational beliefs, etc. Nobody else.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Yes. It's called realism.
    That's cynicism -- you're mistaken.

    It's also cowardly capitulation to what by all ethics should be irrelevant.

    Realistic is focusing on the approximately 100 million Americans who were eligible to vote but didn't vote.

    These people aren't race this or that, they're simply fed up with extremist policy from both wing-nut parties.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Exhibit 1: Lessons that a Party lose the support of the vast majority of a voting group for long periods of time (see African American voting patterns)
    Exhibit 2: Growing share of the U.S. population that is comprised of Hispanics, a demographic trend that is forecast to continue for at least decades according to the Census Bureau
    Exhibit 3: Growing losses of the share of the Hispanic vote won by GOP Presidential candidates (including the loss of the GOP-friendly Cuban vote in Florida)
    Exhibit 4: Multiple states in which the Hispanic vote decided the outcome e.g., Florida, during the 2012 Presidential election
    Exhibit 5: States that had shifted from competitive to reliable blue states (California, New Jersey, etc.) and others currently transitioning from red to purple to possibly blue in the long-term (Virginia, Florida, Colorado, New Mexico--with speculation that Texas, too could ultimately move into transition)
    There's nothing of any significant consequence that the conservative Repubs can do about these matters and still remain who they are: conservative Repubs.

    If they jump on the amnesty and legalization bandwagon they will get their clock cleaned even more, as the millions of additional votes from former illegals will simply go to the liberal Dems anyway.

    Much of the challenge for the conservative Repubs is in their support of business owners/managers over workers, and for whatever reasons that most business owners/managers might be White-Caucasian then that's going to mean a greater percentage of non-White-Caucasians will be workers.

    That's the challenge for the conservative Repubs.

    There's nothing they can do about racial breakdown, to change those percentages in the demographic.

    Even if they jump on the amnesty and legalization bandwagon, they'll still lose in the owners/managers v. workers numbers, and that's the real issue here, not race as you've inaccurately portrayed it and so many others have baited it.

    Since the conservative Repubs will definitely be dead if they cave to amnesty and legalization, because all the new low-wage former illegals will be siding with the liberal Dems on owner/manager v. worker issues, their best hope for survival is: 1) to block amnesty and legalization, and 2) find a way to appeal to the 100 million eligible voters who didn't vote this past November.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The "new math" of scorched earth immigration policy proponents that ignores the growing importance of the Hispanic voting segment only adds up to electoral defeat.
    No, not true.

    First of all, your portrayal of "scorched earth" really implies that voting any more is all about race, when it's not, and that the crimes committed by illegals aren't really crimes at all, when in truth they are huge and serious crimes for sure.

    But even if that's what voter basis in America has descended to, this is still a constitutional republic, not a "democratic" republic. We elect representatives who are free to decide each issue as it comes up, supposedly in the best interest of American citizens.

    Candidates, like Obama did in November, may pander to a race, like Hispanic-Latinos, and thus race-bait, but only dangerous ideologues will be compelled to blindly follow up on that.

    Each issue that elected officials must deal with needs to be addressed on its own terms at the time, after the election, analyzed critically and completely, and action needs to be taken to serve American citizens as a whole, doing no unnecessary discriminating harm to any group.

    Here you imply that "Hispanics will vote for the party that is likely to legalizes illegals because that's the overriding desire of Hispanic Americans in choosing whom to vote for".

    However, in so doing, you just cast all Hispanics as unethical, immoral, and unjust, saying that "Hispanic Americans don't care that others of their race committed terrible crimes against American citizens of all races, crimes of trespassing, identity-forging, and jobs/classrooms/other resource stealing, because justice and the rule of law in America is comparatively meaningless to Hispanics in this regard".

    That's what you're saying.

    You thereby create a bigotry about Hispanic Americans .. and your aforementioned list of why candidates need to kowtow to "Hispanics" is merely a laundry list of excuses for your bigotry.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Senators McCain, Rubio, and others see the reality of what's happening.
    You truly don't know what "they" see.

    Rubio, for one, is setting up support for "immigration reform" contingent on the first step before anything being that the borders be completely and securely closed.

    Since Obama, Reid, and the rest of the liberal Dems will never agree to that, since evidence of the complete and secure closure of our borders will take years to be seen, it's entirely possible that Rubio is just pandering to Hispanic-Latinos in posture .. but really is making sure "immigration reform" (read: amnesty, legalization, and citizenship for 20 million illegals) never happens.

    From a rational citizen-support position, it's huge that the borders first be closed and secure and evidenced thusly, as if amnesty and legalization happens without that, we'll have 100 million illegals trespassing en masse within the year!

    As for McCain, he's always been a loose cannon here and there .. but he's likely only concerned with the power-play, not supporting American citizens.

    So your assumption about what others see simply does not fit the evidence to the contrary.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    They are not prepared to risk an enduring loss of the vast majority of Hispanic voters, a voting segment that will continue to grow given the nation's evolving demographics.
    Your bigoted portrayal of Hispanic-Latinos, that they're all about race and respond to race-baiting and they're unethical, immoral, care not about the rule of law and justice for wronged American citizens .. is simply and egregiously false.

    The reality here is owner/manager v. worker, and, due to the low-income nature of illegals' work pay, the liberal Dems will garner much of the worker support of former illegals if amnesty, legalization, and citizenship for illegals occurs, which not only includes the illegals, but others, for whatever reason, of particular classes.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Look, conservatives, being in favor of immigration reform doesn't mean someone is "pro-illegal."
    Though I'm not a conservative ..

    .. "Immigration reform" is code-speak for amnesty, legalization and citizenship for 20 million trespassers, identity-forgers, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealers of American citizen belongings, thumbing one's nose at both the rule of law and justice for all, "justice for all" as we state in our pledge of allegiance.

    The 20 million illegals are criminals, nothing more, not "immigrants".

    Those who favor "immigration reform", yeah maybe "pro-illegal" is a bit inaccurate, but whatever short term fits what I just described, that's what such Benedict Arnolds are, assuming such supporters ar indeed American citizens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The reason we have so many illegal immigrants in this country is because our immigration policy is completely ridiculous.
    Absolutely false!

    The reason we have so many illegals in America is because the American standard of living is world famous, many illegals come from third-world countries where there is a ton of impoverished people at the same level of impoverishment as only some Americans, and because we don't have our borders closed and secure as we obviously, given our attractiveness, need to do .. and because, of course, some people don't care about respecting the laws of other nations, laws against trespassing, identity-forging, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealing of the belongings of that country's citizens.

    That's why we have so many illegals in America.

    The only thing wrong with our current laws and policy is that we aren't enforcing them; there's simply no need for any "reform".

    Immigration regulations exist to protect citizens from disease, criminals, and invasion, and to protect citizens from over-crowding and resource exhaustion.

    Our current immigration policy is a good thing .. and, topically speaking, D.C. politicians are more concerned about getting reelected than doing right by American citizens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It takes years, thousands of dollars in legal fees, and is sometimes literally impossible.
    It is especially important during a recession or post-recession where unemployment is still painfully high -- currently around 14%, the true unemployment rate -- to make it difficult to add new legal immigrants and citizens until previously legal immigrants and citizens can get employed again.

    And, with all the over-crowding of our cities and roads and emergency care centers that have caused many to close .. well, there are really good reasons why immigration takes so much time and expense.

    That just makes sense.

    If people in other countries like our standard of living so much, why don't they just create it for themselves in their country?

    Oh .. because they've over-populated their country already, so they can't do that so easily, and many of them just want to flee to America where it's less crowded .. for now ..

    .. Or because such an effort would take sacrifice, just like Americans made great sacrifices to get where we are today, to create a sought-after standard of living.

    Regardless, instead of belly-aching about how tough it is to get into America legally, illegals should be self-deporting, returning to their country from which they came, and then fighting hard for reform there!

    That's the right, ethical, and moral thing to do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    But hey, keep talking about hispanics as if they vote only based on handouts. I'm sure that really appeals to them and will help your electoral odds in the future.
    I mean jeez, nobody's expecting you to give them handouts, but if you would just stop talking about them as if they are less than human, maybe they'd hate you less?
    But here that's what you've really said Hispanic-Latinos are all about: supporting handouts in the form of Hispanic-Latinos being allowed to trespass and thus receive the hand-out of American soil they haven't earned, to forge identities and thus receive the hand-out of authorization that isn't rightfully theirs, and to take from American citizens their jobs/classrooms/other-resources and thus receive the hand-out of stolen ill-gotten gains that they simply do not ethically, morally, and legally deserve!

    It is you pro-illegals -- good enough term, I suppose -- who are creating a bigoted spin on Hispanic-Latinos .. and also completely ignoring that 25% of illegals aren't even Hispanic-Latino!

    That will eventually catch up to your political party.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    The Republican Party can not win a national election if it continues to ignore the Hispanic vote.
    They don't care about winning a national election, because if you win, it means you actually have to...you know...govern. Since the TeaPublicans don't actually believe in government, the last thing they want to do is win.
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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Black people and latinos only vote Democrat for handouts. Women voted for Obama because he's handsome or whatever. Or they also want handouts like.. birth control pills and breast exams.

    But straight white Republican men? They vote on principle, rational beliefs, etc. Nobody else.
    Every time I think I've read the funniest post ever on this forum, somebody comes along and proves me wrong. Every single statement in this rant is wrong.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Hey, I would just try to learn to adapt and improvise if I were you guys. What else can you do?

    The world is going in the other direction from where you want it to go. I don't think you can redirect it's course.

    Maybe take up a new hobby.

    They say if life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
    Well, there's always emigration to a country that shares their political philosophy. Saudi Arabia comes to mind.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Though I'm not a conservative ..

    .. "Immigration reform" is code-speak for amnesty, legalization and citizenship for 20 million trespassers, identity-forgers, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealers of American citizen belongings, thumbing one's nose at both the rule of law and justice for all, "justice for all" as we state in our pledge of allegiance.

    The 20 million illegals are criminals, nothing more, not "immigrants".

    Those who favor "immigration reform", yeah maybe "pro-illegal" is a bit inaccurate, but whatever short term fits what I just described, that's what such Benedict Arnolds are, assuming such supporters ar indeed American citizens.



    Absolutely false!

    The reason we have so many illegals in America is because the American standard of living is world famous, many illegals come from third-world countries where there is a ton of impoverished people at the same level of impoverishment as only some Americans, and because we don't have our borders closed and secure as we obviously, given our attractiveness, need to do .. and because, of course, some people don't care about respecting the laws of other nations, laws against trespassing, identity-forging, and jobs/classrooms/other-resource stealing of the belongings of that country's citizens.

    That's why we have so many illegals in America.

    The only thing wrong with our current laws and policy is that we aren't enforcing them; there's simply no need for any "reform".

    Immigration regulations exist to protect citizens from disease, criminals, and invasion, and to protect citizens from over-crowding and resource exhaustion.

    Our current immigration policy is a good thing .. and, topically speaking, D.C. politicians are more concerned about getting reelected than doing right by American citizens.



    It is especially important during a recession or post-recession where unemployment is still painfully high -- currently around 14%, the true unemployment rate -- to make it difficult to add new legal immigrants and citizens until previously legal immigrants and citizens can get employed again.

    And, with all the over-crowding of our cities and roads and emergency care centers that have caused many to close .. well, there are really good reasons why immigration takes so much time and expense.

    That just makes sense.

    If people in other countries like our standard of living so much, why don't they just create it for themselves in their country?

    Oh .. because they've over-populated their country already, so they can't do that so easily, and many of them just want to flee to America where it's less crowded .. for now ..

    .. Or because such an effort would take sacrifice, just like Americans made great sacrifices to get where we are today, to create a sought-after standard of living.

    Regardless, instead of belly-aching about how tough it is to get into America legally, illegals should be self-deporting, returning to their country from which they came, and then fighting hard for reform there!

    That's the right, ethical, and moral thing to do.



    But here that's what you've really said Hispanic-Latinos are all about: supporting handouts in the form of Hispanic-Latinos being allowed to trespass and thus receive the hand-out of American soil they haven't earned, to forge identities and thus receive the hand-out of authorization that isn't rightfully theirs, and to take from American citizens their jobs/classrooms/other-resources and thus receive the hand-out of stolen ill-gotten gains that they simply do not ethically, morally, and legally deserve!

    It is you pro-illegals -- good enough term, I suppose -- who are creating a bigoted spin on Hispanic-Latinos .. and also completely ignoring that 25% of illegals aren't even Hispanic-Latino!

    That will eventually catch up to your political party.
    I've read every single post in this thread and I have concluded you are a pretty bright guy. I just have two questions. In this post you say you are not a conservative, and your lean says that you are a centrist. What, in your opinion, is the difference between a centrist and a conservative? On what issues would you differ from the conservative position?
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    I've read every single post in this thread and I have concluded you are a pretty bright guy. I just have two questions. In this post you say you are not a conservative, and your lean says that you are a centrist. What, in your opinion, is the difference between a centrist and a conservative? On what issues would you differ from the conservative position?
    Post your question here as an OP in a new thread, and I'll be glad to answer your general question as to how centrists and conservatives differ on the issues.

    But I don't want to derail this thread.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Every time I think I've read the funniest post ever on this forum, somebody comes along and proves me wrong. Every single statement in this rant is wrong.
    I know a guy who can take a look at your sarcasm detector.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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