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Thread: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

  1. #21
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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Beyond the rock solid and entirely relevant one that a small collection of self-selected Internet ranters on some given website hardly works as a representative sampling of the whole country (“citizens” only, or otherwise), which you then dismissed out of hand? Yes I do. But I thought I’d start with that one because as I said I found it the funniest. Your post was jam packed with cluelessness, so baby steps seemed in order!
    Translation: "I, Dwight, am pro- amnesty and legalization, and when I encounter solid fact-based evidence that amnesty and legalization is the wrong thing to do by American citizens, I can't handle the facts, so I resort to ad homs directed at those who present the truth."



    Your ad hom derogatory statement about "baby steps" is excuse-speak for not wanting to reveal explicitly where you stand and why.

    I'm waiting ...
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Look, conservatives, being in favor of immigration reform doesn't mean someone is "pro-illegal." The reason we have so many illegal immigrants in this country is because our immigration policy is completely ridiculous. It takes years, thousands of dollars in legal fees, and is sometimes literally impossible.

    But hey, keep talking about hispanics as if they vote only based on handouts. I'm sure that really appeals to them and will help your electoral odds in the future.

    I mean jeez, nobody's expecting you to give them handouts, but if you would just stop talking about them as if they are less than human, maybe they'd hate you less?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #23
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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    I'm waiting ...
    For the bus?

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Look, conservatives, being in favor of immigration reform doesn't mean someone is "pro-illegal." The reason we have so many illegal immigrants in this country is because our immigration policy is completely ridiculous. It takes years, thousands of dollars in legal fees, and is sometimes literally impossible.

    But hey, keep talking about hispanics as if they vote only based on handouts. I'm sure that really appeals to them and will help your electoral odds in the future.

    I mean jeez, nobody's expecting you to give them handouts, but if you would just stop talking about them as if they are less than human, maybe they'd hate you less?
    The problem is using the "package" approach. It always works the same way, the "good" parts get done, the "hard" parts get ignored and the resulting "amnesty" insures the need for more immigration reform. Start with making the border actually secure and requiring verification of ALL employees/employers compliance. With that done, you are left with ONLY unemployed illegal aliens and employers requesting LEGAL guest workers. The talk of "taxation" and "fines" implys that the illegal aliens can and will work even "after reform", which was the entire point of why most folks agreed that immigration reform was needed to begin with, to prevent that nonsense.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Two things about this thread crack me up. First, that O-guy calls himself a centrist.
    The vast majority of centrists are opposed to amnesty and legalization for illegals.

    So, with that fact in mind, and since nothing else was in evidence today in this thread, I'm curious what spiked your sense of humor about me being a centrist.


    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Second, that the priority for so many is simply to keep their party in power, not to take the country in the correct direction, whatever that direction is. The characterization is that moves to find a legal place for illegal immigrants are simply an attempt to shift the balance of power farther towards Democrats. The discussion is NOT about whether or not it is the right thing to do. It is only about which party is more able to dominate the government. Shouldn't a move like this, and indeed political ideologies, be discussed based on their merits, rather than their use in power grabs?
    It appears we're complaining about the same thing.

    Both wing-nut parties are pander-jockeying for illegals votes after they become legalized, which they do considering only that their party needs to remain in power, and not at all considering what is best for current U.S. citizens and legal immigrants.

    The fact is that the Dems have an advantage in this power-grab and that Republicans are commiting suicide by being complicit with it and not otherwise, which is what the OP's criticism of McCain's "Republicans will survive well if they support amnesty and legalization" is all about.

    Thus the focus is on the McCain's and the Repub's erroneous thinking, and not so much on what is "right or wrong" by American citizens .. though it is crystal clear that unethically/immorally granting amnesty and legalization to 20 million trespassers, identify-forgers and jobs/classrooms/other-resources stealers of American citizen belongings is the wrong thing to do in every way.

    I agree, that this issue should be presented with respect to what is right by American citizens.

    But the fact remains, the relevant fact in play right now in D.C., that the reason so many Benedict Arnold representatives on both wings of the aisle are stumping for amnesty and legalization is because they want the power and they could care less about what is right by American citizens.

    That makes their power-grab discussion-worthy .. and criticism of their behavior legitimate.

    If they had no power to gain from their pandering, if they realized that "the Prussians are in the woods" and their current behavior could cost them both dearly in power, they'd be calling for deportation of all illegals left and right!
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes. It's called realism.

    Exhibit 1: Lessons that a Party lose the support of the vast majority of a voting group for long periods of time (see African American voting patterns)
    Exhibit 2: Growing share of the U.S. population that is comprised of Hispanics, a demographic trend that is forecast to continue for at least decades according to the Census Bureau
    Exhibit 3: Growing losses of the share of the Hispanic vote won by GOP Presidential candidates (including the loss of the GOP-friendly Cuban vote in Florida)
    Exhibit 4: Multiple states in which the Hispanic vote decided the outcome e.g., Florida, during the 2012 Presidential election
    Exhibit 5: States that had shifted from competitive to reliable blue states (California, New Jersey, etc.) and others currently transitioning from red to purple to possibly blue in the long-term (Virginia, Florida, Colorado, New Mexico--with speculation that Texas, too could ultimately move into transition)

    The "new math" of scorched earth immigration policy proponents that ignores the growing importance of the Hispanic voting segment only adds up to electoral defeat. Senators McCain, Rubio, and others see the reality of what's happening. They are not prepared to risk an enduring loss of the vast majority of Hispanic voters, a voting segment that will continue to grow given the nation's evolving demographics.

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray410 View Post
    McCain is a disgusting liberal who needs to get off the world stage and drift off into a blissfully unaware retirement
    It's this weird desire for ideological purity (calling McCain a liberal!) that has doomed the tea party occupied GOP to marginal status in all future elections.

    Thank you tea party for killing the wicked witch once and for all.

  8. #28
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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    It's this weird desire for ideological purity (calling McCain a liberal!) that has doomed the tea party occupied GOP to marginal status in all future elections.

    Thank you tea party for killing the wicked witch once and for all.
    Nonsense, McCain was never anything but a wishy-washy politician who will jump at anything that he calculates will give him electoral relevency. It's why so many of us voted for Obama against him for POTUS. Obama (then largely an unknown factor) looked a lot more attractive when the competition was McCain (largely known and reviled).

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Nonsense, McCain was never anything but a wishy-washy politician who will jump at anything that he calculates will give him electoral relevency. It's why so many of us voted for Obama against him for POTUS. Obama (then largely an unknown factor) looked a lot more attractive when the competition was McCain (largely known and reviled).
    The No True Scotsman argument just keeps happening with the tea party, and when it's done they'll only be abot 6 true scotsmen in the country. Thank God.

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    Re: McCain: Failure To Act on Immigration Could Turn Red States Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    GOP lost 4% from Hispanic vote totals after the 1986 amnesty program. Single issue voters don't exist.
    Unless they're black people who apparently only want welfare. Lolz.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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