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Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years[W: 395]

Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Government spending did not decrease last quarter. Read the entire thread please. Thank you

q4_gdp2.png
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Cutting spending OR raising taxes will cause recession, especially with the $1 trillion you guys need to balance. A minor recession is enevitable when balancing a deficit so large.

Neither of them have gone into effect yet.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

And govt spending propping up the economy is hardly a good thing. The money they spend has to be taken OUT of the economy in the first place, or borrowed which casues inflation.

It is better than recession. That's what the Europeans found out. Besides the wealthy don't spend more than a few % of their incomes so their money is put back in the economy instead of hedge funds when Govt. spends it.

0817-biz-EUROweb.jpg
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

It is better than recession. That's what the Europeans found out. Besides the wealthy don't spend more than a few % of their incomes so their money is put back in the economy instead of hedge funds when Govt. spends it.

0817-biz-EUROweb.jpg

And when they put it in a hedge fund, where does it go?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

You are in serious serious denial dude. Look at the changing demographics in Texas. Just because you want to deny it...doesn't make it so. Texas will absolutely be in play as a swing state in 2020 and very quite possibly in 2016.

Wow. I spoke of liberals that didn't know their heads from their asses and, POOF, disneydude appears. Guess I should of taken those warnings about speaking of the Devil more seriously.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

And when they put it in a hedge fund, where does it go?

It is used to bid up prices on commodities we all use. How does that help create jobs?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

It is used to bid up prices on commodities we all use. How does that help create jobs?

No, the correct answer is its invested in companies to help them grow and thus return profits to the investor. That helps create jobs, because it means more employers and more economic activity.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Misery? Dude.... I live in California. A bad day in California is better than a great day in Texas. Now THAT would be misery. No thanks....you live in the armpit of America...I live in the crown jewel. Enough said.

It seems there are many who disagree with you. California's Population Is Moving Out, Census Report Shows | NBC Southern California

With the smart Californians leaving the mismanagement will continue and soon the entire State will be TU. That's inevitable.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

It is used to bid up prices on commodities we all use. How does that help create jobs?

Perhaps you are thinking of futures, though your final analysis is still wrong.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

You are in serious serious denial dude. Look at the changing demographics in Texas. Just because you want to deny it...doesn't make it so. Texas will absolutely be in play as a swing state in 2020 and very quite possibly in 2016.

Why are you wanting to see that happen? Do you want Texas to fail as well?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Residential investment increased by 13.5 percentage points. Nearly a full
percentage point contribution from private investment realm in all, contrasted with less than a tenth in the previous quarter. Table 2 on the aforementioned PDF if you're interested in the nuts and bolts rather than mud slinging.

Post the Fed spending portion of that 3rd Quarter GDP.

Why criticize me for not looking into the "nuts and bolts" of the 3.1% GDP #s and then not post the pertinent information that shows why it was inflated ?

I mean still, you try to slink qnd slime your way out of being honest.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Well yes, cutting federal spending will most certainly help cause a recession.

I think we all can agree that we really have no way of knowing whether "what Obama did" (or failed to do) made the economy weaker, stronger, or mattered at all. It's not like we can run a control experiment.

Some general principles still do apply though: The budgets do need to be balanced, the national debt does need to be reduced. As you say, even (responsible) socialists do it. We cannot risk becoming other Greece - there's no Germany to pay for our sins.

Raising taxes is probably inevitable, because of the politics involved, but the harmful side-effect are obvious: "the rich" are not hiding their treasure in dark damp secret caves - the money is being invested in the economy. Taking it away, losing a good deal to the opportunity costs, transaction costs, misallocation and corruption, then returning it -.... if you step back and look at it with a disinterested eye, does it appear to be a rational activity at all?

(Sure, there is government spending that comes with a "positive multiplier". Building a bridge at the right time in the right place, stuff like that. The only problem: nobody knows, in advance, when and where these "right" things are - and afterwards, you can claim whatever you please: the money is gone, and nobody will ever learn what the same money would build or create if left in the hands of taxpayers in the first place)

We keep talking about "compromise", "balanced solution" etc - all very nice, but if you listen carefully, it takes on a surreal tinge lately. It is like a teenage daughter telling her frustrated dad: "OK, OK, I know maxing out your credit cards is kinda bad, but this is not just about spending - it is about revenues as well. Let's be responsible adults and reach a workable compromise: I will spend a little less every month, and you will get a second job, to help paying the debt off"

Except our collective "daughter" in Congress and White House thinks that "spending less" means not spending quite as much as you could spend in future, according to some artificial "projections". "You know, we could build a huge cannon by 2070, and blow apart Mercury (for blocking our sun, partially). But, as veritable fanatics of fiscal discipline, we resolve not to do it. Here, a trillion quadrillion dollar spending cut"!

And yes, any cut in government spending, however beneficial in the long term, will add short-term and local pressure on the economy: if any worker currently employed at the worst imaginable pork-barrel project gets his wages cut, that means, naturally, that he will spend less tomorrow and the day after tomorrow, the ripple going through every business that serves him, from the barber to the grocery shop. So? We should not do it now, because of the "risk of a recession"? OK. When should we do it? In some bright distant future when recessions are abolished by magic? Even though we keep doing the same very things - from loose monetary policy to bailouts for those who take excessive risks - that cause recessions in the first place?

Let's face it: spending cuts are necessary, and they need to be implemented now. Now is as good (and as bad) as any other time. Unfortunately, neither party has the will to face anything that does not benefit it politically, short-term.

(Oh yes, Republicans say a lot of right words these days. A few of them - on the tea party/libertarian fringe - even mean it. But where are the military spending cuts proposals? Why anyone would take seriously a "fiscal disciplnarian" who ignores the second-largest piece of the budget pie chart?)
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Post the Fed spending portion of that 3rd Quarter GDP.

Why criticize me for not looking into the "nuts and bolts" of the 3.1% GDP #s and then not post the pertinent information that shows why it was inflated ?

I mean still, you try to slink qnd slime your way out of being honest.

q4_gdp2.png
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years


Interesting. Note that if relatively small cuts in defense spending (which produces the lowest job to tax dollar ratio of any government expenditure, and has slow velocity) contributed so much to negative growth, just think what the Tea Party slash and burn cuts to infrastructure, education, research, etc. (which are high in jobs to tax dollar and have high velocity). We'd be in a Second Bush Depression if they had their way.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years


Do you have any clue as to what that equates to in dollars and how insignificant that really is in total GDP? Any idea who pays for all that govt spending and what effect that has on consumer spending? Didn't think so?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Anyone worth their salt saw this coming. Austerity=recession. Maybe somebody in politics might listen this time...nah, probably. not.

This is a prime example of ignorance. The typical Obama voter.

Obama spent 6 Trillion of our money, our kids money, our grandkids money in 4-years. There was no austerity, there was a socialist slush fund and crony capitalism. A socialist spreading the wealth around.

Cut taxes, cut regulation, be business friendly, gut government and things would change, but common sense solutions are anathema to Obama and his Socialist agenda for Amerika.

Anyone with half a brain knew socialism... whether from Obama, Brandt or Honecker will fail.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

It seems there are many who disagree with you. California's Population Is Moving Out, Census Report Shows | NBC Southern California

With the smart Californians leaving the mismanagement will continue and soon the entire State will be TU. That's inevitable.

LOL...I've been hearing that for the last twenty years. We are talking about a drop in a bucket here...and California could USE a few less people. There are too many people here already. It is expensive to live in California for good reason...because people WANT to live here. That makes it difficult for some people people you can't live here on a minimum wage job like you can in North Dakota, Kansas or Texas.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Why are you wanting to see that happen? Do you want Texas to fail as well?

Texas already is a pithole. I don't think Texas failing is a question. The only reason people live in Texas is because its cheap to live there. For good reason.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Do you have any clue as to what that equates to in dollars and how insignificant that really is in total GDP? Any idea who pays for all that govt spending and what effect that has on consumer spending? Didn't think so?

LOL....arguing out of both sides of your mouth again.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years


Pure propaganda. You're just bleeting Ezra Klein Spin.

Federal Outlays Increased in the 4th quarter. Secondly, it was Obama that proposed defense cuts. Defense cuts were responsible for a shrinking economy? :lol:

Federal Outlays by Quarter

http://www.fms.treas.gov/mts/mts.pdf

1st: 966,188

2nd: 884,957

3rd: 809,969

4th: 907,912

:2wave:
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Not that results matter to the Obama cult but further signs that we are on the wrong path and that Obama doesn't have any interest in growing a private sector economy. The new normal today is high unemployment, high debt, massive dependence on the govt, and low economic growth. Congratulations to those of you who believe it is the role of the govt. to provide cradle to grave coverage funded by the rich.

US economy shrinks 0.1 percent, 1st time in 3 1/2 years | Fox News

1) Conservatives don't like government spending.

2) Government spending declined by 22.2% during the 4th quarter of last year.

3) Reduced government spending is the reason the economy contracted by 0.1%.

Sounds to me like you are blaming Obama for the government reducing it's spending last year. I thought reduced government spending was something you were in favor of.

4) So are you a tax and spend Liberal? :mrgreen:
 
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Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Cutting spending OR raising taxes will cause recession, especially with the $1 trillion you guys need to balance. A minor recession is enevitable when balancing a deficit so large.

How about cutting spending and cutting taxes?

You do realize that the same rules that apply to microeconomics apply to government? I love how some people believe the government can just wave a wand and make these rules disappear.

The problem is that we have some of the dumbest people in this country running it and many believe these idiots are intellectually superior just because they're politicians.

The truth is our congress couldn't run a profitable hot dog stand without imploding.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

How about cutting spending and cutting taxes?

You do realize that the same rules that apply to microeconomics apply to government? I love how some people believe the government can just wave a wand and make these rules disappear.

The problem is that we have some of the dumbest people in this country running it and many believe these idiots are intellectually superior just because they're politicians.

The truth is our congress couldn't run a profitable hot dog stand without imploding.

No, macroeconomic do not follow the same "rules' as macroeconomics, as every economic study shows, libertarian metaphors notwithstanding. For instance, thrift is not reward on the macroeconomic level, and lots of credit can produce lots of economic growth and wealth. Indeed, it is the basis of modern capitalism and the system you live in and benefit from, but apparently don't understand.

For instance cutting taxes on the rich leads to income gaps, which lead to high risk investing, which leads to bubbles, which leads to recession. Every single recession in the US has been preceeded by a spike in the income gap -- the bigger the spike, the worse the recession.

Thus Bush's tax cuts for Paris Hilton lead directly to the Bush Meltdown, the biggest recession in 70 years. See how it works: macroeconomics is its own bag and it has nothing to do with libertarian and tea party nostrums about being thrifty.
 
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Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

1) Conservatives don't like government spending.

2) Government spending declined by 22.2% during the 4th quarter of last year.

3) Reduced government spending is the reason the economy contracted by 0.1%.

Sounds to me like you are blaming Obama for the government reducing it's spending last year. I thought reduced government spending was something you were in favor of.

4) So are you a tax and spend Liberal? :mrgreen:

While I am not a conservative (they are too big-government for my taste), I usually don't miss any opportunity to blast Obama's economic and fiscal policies. They are horrible, in my ever-humble opinion
.
I should note, however, that in this instance the reduced government spending is not even a reason for the contraction: it is the contraction. People seem to be forgeting how GDP is calculated.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

1) Conservatives don't like government spending.

2) Government spending declined by 22.2% during the 4th quarter of last year.

3) Reduced government spending is the reason the economy contracted by 0.1%.

Sounds to me like you are blaming Obama for the government reducing it's spending last year. I thought reduced government spending was something you were in favor of.

4) So are you a tax and spend Liberal? :mrgreen:

Reduced for the first 1/4? How did it do for the year?

The fact is that there have been no budgets passed and money is being borrowed in order to try and meet government spending, with records of trillions in debt and more people dependent on government than ever before in American history. Do Leftists feel this is a good sustainable policy?
 
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