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Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years[W: 395]

Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
Yes, money hoarding.



They might as well for all the value it brings to the US economy if they hoard it. A common location for some of that money are foreign investments and foreign banks. Does that help the US economy? Nope.



Bully for you. But that doesn't mean that what others make doesn't affect the economy. It just means you don't care about it.



Cool beans.



Of course. Boycotting is a great way to not personally contribute directly to the hoard. Doesn't change the fact that money hoarding negatively impacts the economy, though.




You're proving my point here. Wages and benefits paid to the workers do this. I.E. money distributed to many people who will then SPEND that money.

Thus, wage freezes hurt the economy, especially when they are done in conjunction with increased profits which are hoarded among the few who already have plenty and thus, do NOT spend that money.





No, they aren't bad. money hoarding is bad, though. If profits increase, and only a few people see dramatic increases in their wealth while the majority stagnates, that is a bad thing.



A crime that's been going on since Reagan.

But I'm curious as to why are you complaining about the size of the deficit in a thread supposedly about the recent decrease in the economy? You realize that the article you posted cites the steps taken to decrease that deficit as the cause of the decrease in the economy, right?
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Sorry, but in a 15 trillion dollar economy I don't see money hoarding by anyone in the top 1% a serious problem if such hoarding exists. All I do see are millions of Americans buying the big govt. philosophy and attacks on individual wealth creation. That really is nothing more than a diversion away from accepting personal responsibility for one's own poor choices.

Unlike many here I understand that raising taxes affects economic growth and that a negative growth impacts not only personal income but also govt. revenue and that adds to the deficit that 51% of the income tax paying income earners are funding.

Until the people of this country demand that the Federal Govt. stop spending 3.8 trillion dollars a year, puts some fiscal responsibility back into our economy and forces people to accept personal responsibility for their poor choices this country is headed into a death spiral. By they way the last Reagan budget was 1 trillion dollars. Now inflation didn't increase that four times, Obamabots helped in that process.

I have been told in this forum that I really am not that smart so that being the case if I can be successful and I was, then all those other brilliant people here whining about how much someone else makes or pays in taxes and how evil corporations are shouldn't have any problem doing better than I did.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
All that so called wishful thinking if not implemented will lead to the total destruction of this country. You cannot spend and tax your way to prosperity. We have a systematic problem in this country, the entitlement mentality. Yes, people have been forced to put money into SS, money that was promised them in the future that the govt. spent on everything other than SS. SS and Medicare have to be funded but to do so they have to be first taken off budget.

This country is headed over the fiscal cliff and the answer isn't taxing the rich, printing or borrowing more money, it is making tough choices. No one is going to vote for the people who want to take on those entitlement programs but that is the only way this country is going to survive.
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No. It survives buy engaging moderate reductions in the size of government over a set period of years, WHILE maintaining the same level of tax income. How can this work? By inducing economic growth. How do we induce economic growth in a consumer based economy? By increasing consumption. How do we increase consumption? Put the tools for consumption (money) into the hands of those that consume the most...

Who is going to consume more, one family of four with 10 million bucks, or or 10 families of four with 1 million each? The answer is obvious. So, how do we make that happen? How do we make it so that more families have more disposable income? Give government mandated raises? Hasn't worked once. So how about reduce the tax liability of the many, by increasing the tax liability of the few? Wrong? Sure. Immoral. But it works, and the argument can be made that by increasing those taxes, we also increase the overall profit margins of those suffering from that tax increase.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
Those things do affect everybody, though. Money hoarding by a small portion of the population has a negative impact on the overall economy for the same reason that decreasing federal spending does.

To explain: $10,000,000 given to one person probably will not get spent within a year or even 10, but $10,000,000 given to 10,000,000 people will probably get spent dozens of times over in a year. In the first scenario, the 10 mil is effectively out of the economy. It's not being used to purchase goods or services. In the latter scenario, that money is continually being used to purchase goods and services though. It's transferring hands over and over again. It benefits many more people.
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They aren't hiding the money under a pillow
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
Sorry, but in a 15 trillion dollar economy I don't see money hoarding by anyone in the top 1% a serious problem if such hoarding exists.
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What you see is irrelevant to the issue. Money hoarding has a negative impact on the economy.

I have been told in this forum that I really am not that smart so that being the case if I can be successful and I was, then all those other brilliant people here whining about how much someone else makes or pays in taxes and how evil corporations are shouldn't have any problem doing better than I did.
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What kind of household did you grow up in? What kind of schools did you go to? What kind of resources did you have available to you while you were growing up?

I'm curious, because intelligence has very little to do with success for most people, but those things are all major factors in economic success for most. I'm not sure why you think that intelligence would be the only factor involved.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Since it is none of my business what people do with their welfare check, it is none of your business what people do with their corporate welfare check :lamo

People are sitting there waiting for someone to deliver a new Escalade with a box of cash in the back and an corporate gate pass on their dash. People are going crazy on gun control, but they won't get out of the recliner over economic policy. If people don't spend, corporate America won't produce. The reason low rate are not booming the economy is because the banking system is still broken. Unless you go after the banks, blaming the producers has the seriousness of Occupying Wall Street until you had to go home for Mom's free Thanksgiving Dinner.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

KevinKohler said:
By fine, do you mean, your take home pay has increased dramatically?
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When I was going strong I took a wage not much better than my employees and invested the rest in the company. Now I don't buy new equipment or pay wages, buy insurance like workmans comp, etc so I work less and make more than I did before. Fortunately I am semi old and by the time my equipment is worthless I will be too. If I was younger it would be a desperate situation but for me it is fine as I will want to reire about the same time my equipment gets to the point where it cost more to keep running than I make with it. As you can see though this is a death spiral situation for a company that wants a future.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Fisher said:
Since it is none of my business what people do with their welfare check, it is none of your business what people do with their corporate welfare check :lamo

People are sitting there waiting for someone to deliver a new Escalade with a box of cash in the back and an corporate gate pass on their dash. People are going crazy on gun control, but they won't get out of the recliner over economic policy. If people don't spend, corporate America won't produce. The reason low rate are not booming the economy is because the banking system is still broken. Unless you go after the banks, blaming the producers has the seriousness of Occupying Wall Street until you had to go home for Mom's free Thanksgiving Dinner.
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Sorry...you must of missed the memo...it's time to change your method of attack on the Occupy Wall Street Crowd. I'll do you a favor...here's the new attack via NY Post
OWS protestors in NY more affluent - NYPOST.com

The new attack isn't they need to get a job but they are too close to the 1% they are protesting.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

The only real question that remains....is this intentional?
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

iliveonramen said:
Sorry...you must of missed the memo...it's time to change your method of attack on the Occupy Wall Street Crowd. I'll do you a favor...here's the new attack via NY Post
OWS protestors in NY more affluent - NYPOST.com

The new attack isn't they need to get a job but they are too close to the 1% they are protesting.
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Sorry, I saw way too many interviews with people who didn't seem to have a clue what exactly they were doing. They might as well just have said "I'm here looking for easy liberal girls to bang"
 
Re: GDP Shows Surprise Drop for U.S. in Fourth Quarter

SURPRISE!
zimmer-albums-conservitoons-picture67141617-obama-waves-america.jpg
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

KevinKohler said:
No. It survives buy engaging moderate reductions in the size of government over a set period of years, WHILE maintaining the same level of tax income. How can this work? By inducing economic growth. How do we induce economic growth in a consumer based economy? By increasing consumption. How do we increase consumption? Put the tools for consumption (money) into the hands of those that consume the most...

Who is going to consume more, one family of four with 10 million bucks, or or 10 families of four with 1 million each? The answer is obvious. So, how do we make that happen? How do we make it so that more families have more disposable income? Give government mandated raises? Hasn't worked once. So how about reduce the tax liability of the many, by increasing the tax liability of the few? Wrong? Sure. Immoral. But it works, and the argument can be made that by increasing those taxes, we also increase the overall profit margins of those suffering from that tax increase.
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So how do you increase the amount of money in the hands of the consumer? Hmmm, Reagan figured it out, liberals never will. You cut taxes which reduces withholding and puts more money in the hands of the consumer. Increases in consumer spending creates jobs as well as grows govt. revenue, always happens and always will. Reagan cut taxes three years in a row and increased govt. income tax revenue by 60%, Bush reduced taxes and we had record tax revenue in 2007. Tax increases do not increase revenue because they change behavior.

Now wage increases increase taxes paid to the govt. and any benefit is offset by the cost of those wage increases in terms of retail prices for goods and services.

You think the only benefit from a 10 million buck person, by the way how many is that and what percentage of our economy do those people affect, is in consumer spending but not creating investment capital or creating employment for people?
 
Re: GDP Shows Surprise Drop for U.S. in Fourth Quarter

Welcome to the reality of spending cuts. They reduce GDP and can easily send us back into recession. This is news to you?

Still, the weakness may be because of one-time factors. Government spending cuts and slower inventory growth subtracted a total of 2.6 percentage points from growth.And those volatile categories offset faster growth in consumer spending, business investment and housing -- the economy's core drivers of growth.

Another positive aspect of the report: For all of 2012, the economy expanded 2.2 percent, better than 2011's growth of 1.8 percent.
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Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
What you see is irrelevant to the issue. Money hoarding has a negative impact on the economy.



What kind of household did you grow up in? What kind of schools did you go to? What kind of resources did you have available to you while you were growing up?

I'm curious, because intelligence has very little to do with success for most people, but those things are all major factors in economic success for most. I'm not sure why you think that intelligence would be the only factor involved.
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Money hoarding isn't the problem you seem to think it is and have offered no proof of the numbers involved or the impact in our 15 trillion dollar economy. The big problem is the 3.8 trillion dollar bloated Federal Govt. and attack on individual wealth creation which was what created this country.

I grew up in an upper lower class home and learned the value of hard work and personal responsibility. I went to public schools and got a college degree. Started out in the corporate world making $750 a month, worked hard, envied and learned from people doing better, emulated their efforts and benefited.

I never cared what someone else made and always celebrated success, never demonizing it. I never placed blame on someone else for poor choices I made. I always operated on the belief that I had a one year contract with my company and was looking for a job when I found the one I had for 35 years. I took control of my life and as a result benefited greatly.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Fisher said:
Since it is none of my business what people do with their welfare check, it is none of your business what people do with their corporate welfare check :lamo

People are sitting there waiting for someone to deliver a new Escalade with a box of cash in the back and an corporate gate pass on their dash. People are going crazy on gun control, but they won't get out of the recliner over economic policy. If people don't spend, corporate America won't produce. The reason low rate are not booming the economy is because the banking system is still broken. Unless you go after the banks, blaming the producers has the seriousness of Occupying Wall Street until you had to go home for Mom's free Thanksgiving Dinner.
Click to expand...

Someone needs to explain to me what corporate welfare is because I never considered keeping more of what someone makes as welfare. Most of that so called corporate welfare is companies keeping more of what they earned by paying less in taxes.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
Someone needs to explain to me what corporate welfare is because I never considered keeping more of what someone makes as welfare. Most of that so called corporate welfare is companies keeping more of what they earned by paying less in taxes.
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That is simple--Corporate Welfare is a government contract that someone other than me got. :2wave:
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Bronson said:
What are they doing with it then?
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Its in a bank, stocks, or other investments(property, ownership of concept/process), which means its in the economy being leveraged by others.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Fisher said:
That is simple--Corporate Welfare is a government contract that someone other than me got. :2wave:
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Jealousy is a serious problem on the part of far too many. Wouldn't it be great having a smaller central govt. whose power wasn't great enough to create this kind of atmosphere.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
Money hoarding isn't the problem you seem to think it is and have offered no proof of the numbers involved or the impact in our 15 trillion dollar economy.
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I assume you already understand how and why it's a problem since you oppose tax increases for the same people I'm discussing.

I grew up in an upper lower class home and learned the value of hard work and personal responsibility. I went to public schools and got a college degree. Started out in the corporate world making $750 a month, worked hard, envied and learned from people doing better, emulated their efforts and benefited.
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Well done. You certainly took advantage of the fewer opportunities that you would have had in that situation as compared to, say, someone who grew up in upper middle or upper class who would need to put in a third of the effort as someone from the lower class would have to to achieve the same level of success.

I never cared what someone else made and always celebrated success, never demonizing it. I never placed blame on someone else for poor choices I made. I always operated on the belief that I had a one year contract with my company and was looking for a job when I found the one I had for 35 years. I took control of my life and as a result benefited greatly.
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Pointing ut the reality of the situation =/= demonizing. The facts are the facts. There's no emotional connection to them. Money hoarding damages the economy because it removes money from circulation.

That's not a value statement, it's a factual one. I'm not discussing increased profits and wages for the highest earners, I'm discussing that coupled with a lack of increases, and even decreases, at the "ground" level. That combination is the formula which hurts the economy, as that combination is what constitutes money hoarding among the few.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Conservative said:
Jealousy is a serious problem on the part of far too many. Wouldn't it be great having a smaller central govt. whose power wasn't great enough to create this kind of atmosphere.
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It would be great to have more proactive state governments but it is a chicken-egg argument as to why we do not at this point in time.
 
Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

Tucker Case said:
I miss college. :(
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Hope and Strange--I mean Change; Hope and Change......honest :3oops:
 
Re: GDP Shows Surprise Drop for U.S. in Fourth Quarter

iguanaman said:
Welcome to the reality of spending cuts. They reduce GDP and can easily send us back into recession. This is news to you?
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So roughly 390 billion( 2.6% of 15 trillion ) is what we lost between government spending reductions and inventory? Other thread indicated that government spending reduction was 40 billion in 4th quarter, so that would mean that government spending cuts only attributed 10% of that 2.6 percentage reduction.

Or is my starting number incorrect?
 
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