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Thread: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years[W: 395]

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    If by "survive", you mean, record profit margins, and 50% or higher increase in executive compensation, then...yes. They are struggling to "survive".
    The so called profit margin for these comps is an illusion. They have cut cost to the bone and are hoarding capital in an attempt to weather this economic storm. The reality is they are treading water, in the business world if you are not growing you are dying. I used to employ a dozen people and most of my profit went into new and better equipment so my profit margin looked horrible but I was doing great. Now that I have laid everyone off and work by myself, don't buy any new equipment and own every piece of worn out junk I have my margin looks great on paper but in reality I am out of business. Huge corps do the same thing, cut cost and sit on their money.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Conservative;1061407486]Absolutely, let the free enterprise system work by allowing companies to fail, people to fail, and force people to accept personal responsibility.
    Pipe dream. Never gonna happen. Ron Paul has a better shot of winning a presidential election after dying of old age and being resurrected by Jesus to save the US, than imposing legislation that forces personal responsibility, and the like. Fact is, this country is full of spineless, weak willed, weak minded people, who want and need security blankets. We NEED those too large to fail corporations, because they enable a higher level of stability in the job market.
    Stop the bailouts and cut entitlement spending.
    More pipe dreaming. So long as politicans care FIRST about re-election, SECOND about personal finances, and a DISTANT third about their country and their constituents...never gonna happen.
    Force people to work not accept welfare.
    Wishful thinking. Who's gonna vote for the guy that runs on THAT campaign? Tax payers, sure...but with the way we're headed, they'll be fewer of us, than non tax payers.
    Remove SS and Medicare along with funding for those programs off budget, cut the remaining size of govt. down to 1.5 trillion by eliminating departments that are duplicated at the state levels. Let states handle their own social issues and force the federal govt. to do only what is mandated by the Constitution which is to provide for the common defense. Promote individual wealth creation and stop rewarding failure.
    Too many people have paid in SS to just kill it. How do we cut those losses? By telling us all that all those hundreds of thousands we've each paid in is vanished? Or would we got a pay out? Make it optional. Medicare is a necisary evil. The last bit would require a second civil war, and the "right" states would have to win it this time around, in order to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    The so called profit margin for these comps is an illusion. They have cut cost to the bone and are hoarding capital in an attempt to weather this economic storm. The reality is they are treading water, in the business world if you are not growing you are dying. I used to employ a dozen people and most of my profit went into new and better equipment so my profit margin looked horrible but I was doing great. Now that I have laid everyone off and work by myself, don't buy any new equipment and own every piece of worn out junk I have my margin looks great on paper but in reality I am out of business. Huge corps do the same thing, cut cost and sit on their money.
    And how's your executive compensation, lol?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I'll shoot that question right back at you, and then answer it for you.

    How does public spending affect companies, so long as their tax liabilities don't increase. And they aren't. How does the US deficit affect companies, again, beyond their tax liabilities?

    As for someone else's compensation, it affects me, when you stop to consider that their record bonuses come at the expense of payroll to the rest of us within that company. It affects me when their pay is what is causing a company to be less solvent. How many times you gotta watch companies go down in flames while the brass make out like ****ing bandits, before you start to realize that the so called bastions of capitalism only really care about themselves, and are more than willing to bend and break the rules, and screw millions, the line their own pockets? How many times you gotta watch that happen, before you determine that continuing on that path is detrimental to our economy?
    What you and others have done is buy into the liberal rhetoric that we need high taxes to fund this bloated federal govt. Why is it that any company should be taxed, what services do the company receive from the govt, not the people the company? Companies running a deficit go out of business, the govt. running a deficit just prints more money. The fourth largest budget item for the taxpayers today is debt service from which we get nothing. The Federal Govt. ignores that reality as do people like you. We don't need more tax revenue we need less govt. spending

    Seems to me that far too many focus on what someone else makes or pays in taxes versus what the govt. spends and collects in taxes. I never worried about what some CEO makes in bonus as no one held a gun to my head forcing me to take the job. I knew what I was getting into when I signed on with the company and was free to look for another job any time I wanted. All I asked for was an equal opportunity which I always got.

    All I see frompeople like you are excuses and blame for your own failures. What is preventing you from being one of those so called corporate elites making the big bonus. Bet if you look in the mirror you would understand.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    And how's your executive compensation, lol?
    I am doing fine, my X employees not so much.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Those things do affect everybody, though. Money hoarding by a small portion of the population has a negative impact on the overall economy for the same reason that decreasing federal spending does.

    To explain: $10,000,000 given to one person probably will not get spent within a year or even 10, but $10,000,000 given to 10,000,000 people will probably get spent dozens of times over in a year. In the first scenario, the 10 mil is effectively out of the economy. It's not being used to purchase goods or services. In the latter scenario, that money is continually being used to purchase goods and services though. It's transferring hands over and over again. It benefits many more people.
    Money hoarding? What do rich people do with their money, bury it in the backyard? I don't care what others make and only control what I make. I never complained about my company's profits or the bonuses paid employees. Regardless of what someone else makes in the private sector, people have a choice where to spend their money and if you don't like it, don't purchase from that company and convince others not to do it either.

    Seems far too many people focus on the wrong thing, private sector wages and benefits don't cost the taxpayer a dime and in fact fund most local communities and economies. People need to stop buying the liberal spin that profits and individual wealth creation are bad because they aren't. A 3.8 trillion dollar federal budget is a crime IMO.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
    Exactly.

    US Economy Shrinks 0.1 Pct., 1st Time in 3½ Years - ABC News

    "Frankly, this is the best-looking contraction in U.S. GDP you'll ever see," Paul Ashworth, an economist at Capital Economics, said in a note to clients. "The drag from defense spending and inventories is a one-off. The rest of the report is all encouraging.”

    The inventory growth being off might have something to do with the uncertainty over “fiscal cliff”. Unfortunately that has not been fully dealt with yet, the spending cut portion was just postponed to March.
    Notice how the media and liberals throw out those big numbers never putting them in context. All those so called spending cuts are over 10 years thus that big number has to be divided by 10 which is miniscule making no dent in the deficit. The problem in this country is the massive growth in the federal govt. and demands for the Obamabots for more welfare spending thus less personal responsibility.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Pipe dream. Never gonna happen. Ron Paul has a better shot of winning a presidential election after dying of old age and being resurrected by Jesus to save the US, than imposing legislation that forces personal responsibility, and the like. Fact is, this country is full of spineless, weak willed, weak minded people, who want and need security blankets. We NEED those too large to fail corporations, because they enable a higher level of stability in the job market. More pipe dreaming. So long as politicans care FIRST about re-election, SECOND about personal finances, and a DISTANT third about their country and their constituents...never gonna happen. Wishful thinking. Who's gonna vote for the guy that runs on THAT campaign? Tax payers, sure...but with the way we're headed, they'll be fewer of us, than non tax payers. Too many people have paid in SS to just kill it. How do we cut those losses? By telling us all that all those hundreds of thousands we've each paid in is vanished? Or would we got a pay out? Make it optional. Medicare is a necisary evil. The last bit would require a second civil war, and the "right" states would have to win it this time around, in order to happen.
    All that so called wishful thinking if not implemented will lead to the total destruction of this country. You cannot spend and tax your way to prosperity. We have a systematic problem in this country, the entitlement mentality. Yes, people have been forced to put money into SS, money that was promised them in the future that the govt. spent on everything other than SS. SS and Medicare have to be funded but to do so they have to be first taken off budget.

    This country is headed over the fiscal cliff and the answer isn't taxing the rich, printing or borrowing more money, it is making tough choices. No one is going to vote for the people who want to take on those entitlement programs but that is the only way this country is going to survive.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Money hoarding?
    Yes, money hoarding.

    What do rich people do with their money, bury it in the backyard?
    They might as well for all the value it brings to the US economy if they hoard it. A common location for some of that money are foreign investments and foreign banks. Does that help the US economy? Nope.

    I don't care what others make and only control what I make.
    Bully for you. But that doesn't mean that what others make doesn't affect the economy. It just means you don't care about it.

    I never complained about my company's profits or the bonuses paid employees.
    Cool beans.

    Regardless of what someone else makes in the private sector, people have a choice where to spend their money and if you don't like it, don't purchase from that company and convince others not to do it either.
    Of course. Boycotting is a great way to not personally contribute directly to the hoard. Doesn't change the fact that money hoarding negatively impacts the economy, though.

    Seems far too many people focus on the wrong thing, private sector wages and benefits don't cost the taxpayer a dime and in fact fund most local communities and economies.

    You're proving my point here. Wages and benefits paid to the workers do this. I.E. money distributed to many people who will then SPEND that money.

    Thus, wage freezes hurt the economy, especially when they are done in conjunction with increased profits which are hoarded among the few who already have plenty and thus, do NOT spend that money.



    People need to stop buying the liberal spin that profits and individual wealth creation are bad because they aren't.
    No, they aren't bad. money hoarding is bad, though. If profits increase, and only a few people see dramatic increases in their wealth while the majority stagnates, that is a bad thing.

    A 3.8 trillion dollar federal budget is a crime IMO.
    A crime that's been going on since Reagan.

    But I'm curious as to why are you complaining about the size of the deficit in a thread supposedly about the recent decrease in the economy? You realize that the article you posted cites the steps taken to decrease that deficit as the cause of the decrease in the economy, right?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Conservative;1061407552]What you and others have done is buy into the liberal rhetoric that we need high taxes to fund this bloated federal govt.
    Negative. Like you, I wanted our government much smaller. Unlike you, I have come to see the absolute futility in trying to achieve that goal short of some form of violence. I support higher taxes for a number of far more heinous reasons. Since I can't legislate responsibility among corporate executive types, I want to tax the crap out of them so that , A.) the tax liability on the rest of us NOT making money hand over fist is reduced, and B.)to minimize the incentives to "get rich/more rich using any means at one's disposal". Uncle sam uses taxation to either encourage, or discourage certain activities. I'm suggesting this as being the same. The collateral, which I can't find a way around, are those who get wealthy without actually bleeding companies dry, screwing over millions, etc. The argument can be made, however, that despite less "profit in pockets" due to taxes, the over all profits would be larger, due to more disposable income in the hands of the non rich.
    Why is it that any company should be taxed, what services do the company receive from the govt, not the people the company?
    This can't be a serious question. Roads? Do companies not use them? Are they not completely reliant on our entire infrastructure to exist? How about subsidies, which, it seems, the larger the company, the greater the level of subsidization. I hope this was not a serious question, I think much more highly of you.
    Companies running a deficit go out of business, the govt. running a deficit just prints more money.
    Not before the CEO, CFO, SVP, etc, get huge bonuses, and cash out their stock options.
    The fourth largest budget item for the taxpayers today is debt service from which we get nothing. The Federal Govt. ignores that reality as do people like you. We don't need more tax revenue we need less govt. spending
    But we HAVE gotten something. Debt is nothing more than payment on services rendered. We are paying off the things we have received in the past. The interest we pay is the price of us being ABLE to have a deficit.

    Seems to me that far too many focus on what someone else makes or pays in taxes versus what the govt. spends and collects in taxes.
    I agree. Spending has always been the issue, as far as our government is, not taxes. But I'm not talking about our government right now, I'm talking about our economy.
    I never worried about what some CEO makes in bonus as no one held a gun to my head forcing me to take the job.
    I ordinarily agree with this statement, but it seems to me we have a pandemic, right now, and it needs to be addressed. Far too often, I see this crap on the news, and I'm sick of it. I'm sick of watching our economy suffer at the hands of a few who are simply looking to get richer.
    I knew what I was getting into when I signed on with the company and was free to look for another job any time I wanted.
    Me, too. And now my company is doing the same thing so many others I passed up working for are doing. See the issue? Just how often should I have to jump ship? Shouldn't we have some minimum requirements held on this "captains" of industry, since their choices affect so many of us, so dramatically?
    All I asked for was an equal opportunity which I always got.
    And all I ask for is for the people who have more power over me than my elected representatives, to have a little responsibility.
    All I see frompeople like you are excuses and blame for your own failures.
    I have listed no failures. I'm doing just fine. I require no assistance from anyone. All I offer are observations about things that are most CERTAIN to provide us trouble in the future.
    What is preventing you from being one of those so called corporate elites making the big bonus.
    A lack of connections. Used to be, you worked your way UP to one of those positions, by being in the company for a long time. It provided those leaders with perspective, and made them CARE about their company, and the people working there. What I think has happened now is, the original owners of so many of these companies have died, leaving it to a board, or to spoiled brat kids, and the guy that worked his way up from the mail room is no longer a viable candidate for the higher end jobs, because there are too many children of the board members that need jobs, or golfing buddies, etc. So, now, the new standard is that someone "work" their way up from the upper middle level of executive management within the company, at best, or not at all, as is the case so often. We have a new breed of people leading these companies, who, largely, don't have ANY skin in the game, at all. The board members, and controlling share holders don't mind, because they get their check, even as the company falters. Sure, the check might be a tad smaller in some cases than it was in past times...but what does it matter when you didn't really have to do much to get that check in the first place, and with that check, you can simply cash in to another nice, big potential payday? That a company, an entire town, might die in the process, is of no concern. And then there are the too big to fail. That's like writing your own blank checks, right there, so who cares, right? A person who toiled away for 20 years to EARN that top spot would care.


    Bet if you look in the mirror you would understand.
    You really should just stop with the assumptions. You're getting a lot more swing and misses, than hits, bub.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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