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Thread: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years[W: 395]

  1. #401
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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    People don't spend net worth, they spend personal income.

    Net worth goes up and down and the problem is the net worth hasn't recovered because of very poor leadership and economic policies.
    That's correct, but a steep decline in net worth undeniably alters the spending and savings patterns of the average consumer. Think big picture here.

    Leadership by it's lonesome can't resurrect structural and sectoral devastation. Housing and Financial markets have clawed back (the latter at a much quicker pace), yet still have some ground to cover before losses are fully recouped. No overnight fixes were or are available.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    You ignoring his supporters in the financial district is borne of what? Partisan blindness?

    Lawyers, academia, unions, the press, financial sectors, all had heavy support for Obama.

    The average donation to BO's campaign was $54.94.Hardly Koch like pockets.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    And in this one, people are having assets forclosed or repossessed. Your view of things is myopic. This recession is pretty bad. Comparing it to 81-82 doesnt do anything useful or constructive, unless we learn something from it.
    Obviously nothing is going to change your mind or anyone else's but the reality is leadership is what brought us out of the 81-82 recession and lack of leadership prolonged this one. It is the responsibility of a leader to work with both parties to solve the nations problems, Obama has zero leadership skills and showed thus the worst recovery on record. Reagan was a leader and the recovery speaks for itself.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    That's correct, but a steep decline in net worth undeniably alters the spending and savings patterns of the average consumer. Think big picture here.

    Leadership by it's lonesome can't resurrect structural and sectoral devastation. Housing and Financial markets have clawed back (the latter at a much quicker pace), yet still have some ground to cover before losses are fully recouped. No overnight fixes were or are available.
    People experience paper losses every day and net worth loss is a paper loss. Wall Street recovered quite well, main street not so well. Think big picture here, over 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers, low economic growth, almost 6 trillion added to the debt in less than 5 years, growth of the entitlement society is the big picture and is being promoted by a leftwing ideologue and all his minions.

  5. #405
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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Think big picture here, over 22 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers
    But it's their own fault they're unemployed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Hey, invest your own money, buy a business and you can hire all the two year unemployed deadbeats you want. Why aren't you doing that since you are such an expert on private business?

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    If you came to me as an able body and told me you couldn't find a job in 2 years I wouldn't hire you because obviously you had no problem taking a taxpayer check vs. doing any job. I prefer hard working people than someone who can work but chooses to collect an unemployment check
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    As for unemployment, if it takes you two years or even a year to get another job you aren't worth much at all.

  6. #406
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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    But it's their own fault they're unemployed.
    2 plus years of unemployment insurance isn't incentive for anyone to find a job. Obama is creating the dependent class funded by those of us that actually pay Federal Income Taxes

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Bronson View Post
    FDR's policies prolonged The Great Depression. So in a way, you are correct, though only to your detriment. You undermine your own argument by trying to use it as an example.

    Par for the course

    FDR's policies prolonged Depression by 7 years, UCLA economists calculate / UCLA Newsroom
    It is not a good idea for you to post links to website explaining the results of a research paper you are incapable of both understanding and defending. Case in point, here is the actual paper:

    http://www.minneapolisfed.org/resear...umAnalysis.pdf

    The main assumption from this paper will be in bold:

    Our results show that New Deal policies are important for understanding the persistence
    of the Great Depression. The key depressing element behind New Deal policies was not
    monopoly per se, but rather linking the ability of firms to collude with paying high wages
    .
    Our model indicates that these policies reduced consumption, and investment about 14 percent
    relative to their competitive balanced growth path levels. Thus, the model accounts for
    about half of the continuation of the Great Depression between 1934 and 1939.
    But in reality, the assumption that these actions were contractionary results from ignoring the frictions that persisted at the time, e.g. nominal interest rates near the zero bound along with nominal wage rigitities.

    As Gauti B. Eggertsson states in his 2006 follow up paper, "Was the New Deal Contractionary?",
    Quote Originally Posted by Eggertsson
    In this paper the social plannerís optimality condition that holds under regular circumstances fails due to a combination of sticky prices, shocks that make the natural rate of interest negative, and the zero bound on the short term interest rate (that prevents the government from accommodating the shocks by interest rate cuts). This combination changes the optimality conditions of the social planner so that, somewhat surprisingly, it becomes optimal to facilitate the monopoly pricing of firms and workers alike. This result provides a new and surprising policy prescription that has been frowned upon by economists for the past several hundred years, dating at least back to Adam Smith who famously claimed that the collusion of monopolies to prop up prices was a conspiracy against the public."
    Hence the paper has been invalidated due to these authors desires to exclude important economic variables (and their data sets), namely the conditions of low nominal interest rate frictions (short term interest rates near zero) and nominal wage rigitities (sticky prices in the form of wages)....

    You fail, and fail miserably.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    For the person who thinks that Austrians have no theory of the firm.

    The Economic Theory of the Firm - Per Bylund - Mises Daily

    It's really not hard to find. I don't know why you bring up these specious arguments.

    Why do I bring this up? Because you always bring up this false argument when I get into a debate with you.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Right just like right now when nothing is as it appears because people like you ignore reality and actual results. Wall Street is doing quite well but Main Street is suffering unless you believe high unemployment, high debt, and low economic growth is a true liberal success story and the new normal.
    You are right... we still haven't dug out from the mess left by Bush.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by phattonez View Post
    For the person who thinks that Austrians have no theory of the firm.

    The Economic Theory of the Firm - Per Bylund - Mises Daily

    It's really not hard to find. I don't know why you bring up these specious arguments.

    Why do I bring this up? Because you always bring up this false argument when I get into a debate with you.
    Did you read the article in its entirety?

    The Coasean theory of the firm is without a doubt the dominant cornerstone; this is simply a matter of fact that can be supported by using a multi-school approach e.g. instutionalism, New-Keynesianism, Neo-Classical Economics, etc....

    From your own source which you undoubtedly did not read close enough:

    But what about the Austrian School? The answer is that we sadly do not have a theory of the firm. Mises did not theorize much on firm organizing, and Rothbard finds it sufficient to briefly discuss the natural limit to firm size due to the calculation problem in Man, Economy, and State (1962). More recently, we have seen several attempts to draft an Austrian theory of the firm, but they generally remain drafts rather than developed theories. Frederic Sautet has attempted to formulate a theory of the firm based on Kirzner's entrepreneur in An Entrepreneurial Theory of the Firm (2000), but does not make a thoroughly convincing case, and Peter Lewin has developed a Lachmann-inspired capital-based view of the firm. Similarly, Peter G. Klein has made some progress in integrating the transaction-cost approach with Austrian capital theory and Misesian entrepreneurship (see his The Capitalist and the Entrepreneur [2010] and the forthcoming Organizing Entrepreneurial Judgment: A New Approach to the Firm [2011]).

    While these approaches are predominantly Austrian in both flavor and substance, they all tend to disregard the traditional, "older" view of the firm as a different type of division of labor; instead, they focus more narrowly on several distinctly Austrian insights. Furthermore, the firm tends to be analytically separated from the overall market process due to the emphasis put on its internal organization and boundaries. But should the firm be analyzed as a creature distinct from the market — or is it an integral part of the market's process and its evolution toward more extensive or intense division of labor and greatly increased prosperity?
    This article makes an argument as to why the Austrian school does not need a theory of the firm, just in the same respects as it does not need to incorporate empirical methods to understand economic result. At least the author is honest in regards to the Austrian shortcomings.
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

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