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Thread: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years[W: 395]

  1. #231
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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Reduced for the first 1/4? How did it do for the year?

    The fact is that there have been no budgets passed and money is being borrowed in order to try and meet government spending, with records of trillions in debt and more people dependent on government than ever before in American history. Do Leftists feel this is a good sustainable policy?
    For the year as a whole, the economy expanded, but the government itself was contributing to that..... And thus the quandry. Can government pull us out of recession? Yes it can, but that comes with a caveat, which is an even greater debt, which will eventually lead us back to where we are now. Government spending, while useful for the short term, is nothing more than a band-aid on the real problem, which is debt. As long as the government attempts to spend us out of recession, it will always circle and come back to us, and once again, we are faced with a problem. This is much like a dog chasing his tail.... A lot of energy expended, but no real long term solution.
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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ReformCollege View Post
    And every one of those countries spends and taxes more than us as a % of gdp.
    True.

    But we have to be cautious in our interpretations. Denmark, for example, has a very high government spenidng per GDP - but it also has an excellent record in most every other aspect of economic policy: free trade, labor flexibility, regulations, you name it. All things considered, it actually ends up as a place MORE free-market than the US of A - according to the Heritage Foundation, anyway:

    Index of Economic Freedom: Promoting Economic Opportunity and Prosperity by Country

    Now, small countries like Denmark or (very low spending) Switzerland (not to mention our libertarian darling HK) should probably be edited out of competition (Apples and oranges, really: Denmark could be compared with New Hampshire or Minnesota, not the whole USA).

    If we look at comparable entities, you have Canada (about the same expenditure, better results, but it may be just because of the natural resources boom), Japan (lower spending, stagnation - and a huge national debt in the background, although structured in a very different way), Australia (lower spending, otherwise see "Canada").

    Clearly, as Switzerland, New Zealand, Aussies, et al can testify, a lower tax burden and a lower federal spending than ours are quite compatible with both prosperity and "higher equality", if that's your thing. Otherwise, "certainly inconclusive".

    We tend to think about taxation, spending etc in highly abstract terms. But (without surrendering an ounce of my libertarian credo), I am happy to report that Denmark (where I have solid academic and business connections) is a cheerful, relaxed, fat and free country. And nowhere else - not even in New Hampshire - I have met so many hard-core libertarians. They are just not all that worried about taxes per se. "Hey, when I get rich, I will donate half of my of fortune to other Danes anyway. Who cares how it is done - through a charitable foundation, or through Her Royal Majesty's offices?" Now, tell the same people that it's OK to slap a tariff on foreign goods to protect a local underperformer, or that someone could be forced to pay union dues while not being a union member - they will instantly switch into a Viking berserker mode that would make our most ardent tea partiers look like Buddhist nuns studying accounting.

    Really, it is a matter of trust. In a small country, in the "one big family",when you can easily verify that your tax money is actually being spent on fixing roads and buying power tools for a handyman out of his luck - well, lowering the tax burden is not a high priority there, not even for a convinced libertarian. One day ...- plenty of other things to do.

    But we are not Denmark. Our small-town social cohesion is a distant memory. Do we have any reason to trust the wheelers and dealers in DC as much as an average Dane trusts his elected representatives, in the country of 5 million? (You know it is a rhetorical question).

    ........

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    (It really is yndigt I highly recommend

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL...I've been hearing that for the last
    twenty years. We are talking about a drop in a bucket here...and California could USE a few less people. There are too many people here already. It is expensive to live in California for good reason...because people WANT to live here. That makes it difficult for some people people you can't live here on a minimum wage job like you can in North Dakota, Kansas or Texas.
    DisneyDude are you an "imagineer" at Disney ?

    Hey if you have any say dont let them destroy the Star Wars Saga.

    Anywhoo...Your take is a interesting one no doubt. Jerry Brown raised taxes to run people out ? Hmmmm.

    Realistically less population and Capital flight isn't good for any State so I sincerely doubt making Cali a rich folk destination is yoir Govenors intention.

    Rich folk dont typically like being fleeced by the local Govt

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Yes, illegals want to live there, collect welfare and have their medical bills paid.

    If you have been hearing it for 20 years then that should have been warning enough. You have no one to blame then but yourselves.
    Don't worry about us.....we are doing just fine....thank you. We feel sorry for the poor schmucks that don't have the same opportunities that we do.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    DisneyDude are you an "imagineer" at Disney ?

    Hey if you have any say dont let them destroy the Star Wars Saga.

    Anywhoo...Your take is a interesting one no doubt. Jerry Brown raised taxes to run people out ? Hmmmm.

    Realistically less population and Capital flight isn't good for any State so I sincerely doubt making Cali a rich folk destination is yoir Govenors intention.

    Rich folk dont typically like being fleeced by the local Govt
    I never said that Jerry Brown raised taxes to run people out. The reality is...California, particularly Los Angeles are expensive areas to live. Why? Because people WANT to live here. Unfortunately the high cost of living runs some people out...thats an unfortunate consequence. But people here understand that the luxury of living in Southern California comes with a cost. We expect to pay more in taxes than people living in Wyoming, Idaho or Texas....its supply and demand. You go to a place where people actually WANT to live and you are going to have to pay more. That's why there is a price difference between Filet Mignon and Ground Beef.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I never said that Jerry Brown raised taxes to run people out. The reality
    is...California, particularly Los Angeles are expensive areas to live. Why? Because people WANT to live here. Unfortunately the high cost of living runs some people out...thats an unfortunate consequence. But people here understand that the luxury of living in Southern California comes with a cost. We expect to pay more in taxes than people living in Wyoming, Idaho or Texas....its supply and demand. You go to a place where people actually WANT to live and you are going to have to pay more. That's why there is a price difference between Filet Mignon and Ground Beef.
    LOL !! Fillet Mignon or Ground Beef...

    You know in Houston we're having a little problem with California General Contractors trying to come in and take advantage of our growing economy.

    My brothers a Texas General Contractor and its only from Cali apparently. Thry send their little teams and bid on Construction amd are home based out of your hell hole of a state.

    And NO, Californias not more expensive because its better, its more expensive because the locals are so bereft of natural human cognissense they have no idea they're getting fleeced.

    People are leaving that once great state, people with means because they're waking up and tired of giving up so much to the State Govt.

    Ive been to So Cal, Berkely, San Fran, sure its nice but in no way does the price justify the land and/or weather.

    Thank God for Texas, were literally proving that a progressive approach is the wrong way to run a local economy, by doing the polar opposite.

  7. #237
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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Post the Fed spending portion of that 3rd Quarter GDP.

    Why criticize me for not looking into the "nuts and bolts" of the 3.1% GDP #s and then not post the pertinent information that shows why it was inflated ?
    The Federal contribution to the Q3 figures was .71%, while the contribution from gross private investment was .85%. You were simply incorrect.

    Perhaps because the relevant document was smack dab in front of your face yet you insisted on skimming headlines from the blogosphere for analysis.

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    No......
    Still want to stick to that 3% growth prediction you made a while back to me? You remember right? The one where you said the economy would grow by 3% in the first quarter of 2013? Just checking.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    The Federal contribution to the Q3 figures was .71%, while the contribution from gross private investment was .85%. You were simply incorrect.

    Perhaps because the relevant document was smack dab in front of your face yet you insisted on skimming headlines from the blogosphere for analysis.
    No, you just don't possess the integrity to tell the truth about the 3rd quarter GDP. Drop the Govt expenditures and the GDP is actual around 1.6%. Real federal government consumption expenditures and gross investment increased 9.6 percent in the third quarter, in contrast to a decrease of 0.2 percent in the second.

    Keep it up, your lying and mitigation. It just underscores the desperation from the left. Hyperbole, demagogy, diversions and dishonesty.....it's the fundamental basis of every progressive's post.
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    Re: Economy shrinks for first time in 3 1/2 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    No, you just don't possess the integrity to tell the truth about the 3rd quarter GDP.

    Drop the Govt expenditures and the GDP is actual around 1.6%.
    I've provided you with the actual documentation, which reads as posted previously. You're arguing against your own source at this point.

    Federal expenditures contributed .71 percentage points to the third quarter gdp figures, which tallied 3.1% in total. Once again, you're batting a fat .000 here.

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