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Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

Travis007 said:
your over reaction to this story tells me all I need to know about you.... amazing how we find out so much...

In Saudi Arabia they just kill women ...Im sure you are enraged over that..
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Not to dilute your nice emotional rant with actual logic, but just because another country does inappropriate(to put it mildly) things does not in any vway make these allegations, if true, any less inappropriate.
 
ecofarm said:
It was not an accusation of racism. It was an accusation that African immigrants are too uninformed to find out what shots they take and what those shots do. Like they would not ask anyone anything. Like "oh, you know their easily fooled, like children!". No, dude. They find out what their doctors give them, they ask questions.



That would be a major crime, committed apparently by the state. A crime of, dare I say, Hitler proportions.



Lots of crazy crap has happened. The question is, should we indict Israel of forced, unknown, sterilization of a minority population based on 30 interviews by one researcher? I say that's stupid. I say my explanation is obvious, the researcher knew it and the researcher went for 15 minutes on what constitutes a small part of a thesis.
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It appears we now have another tier in the argument.

"Do you honestly believe darkies would be that dumb?"
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Which is why I cited a medical dictionary ...

did the process leave them "unable to produce children"? Yes, on a temporary basis. Hence "temporary sterilization".

Not sure how this really speaks to the issue though
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:naughty
That is not sterilization.
You are purposely using it wrongly.
The correct terminology is "contraceptive".

They are not sterile. Their eggs are still capable of being fertilized.


Thorgasm said:
It's pretty sad how people refuse to believe anything negative about the Israeli government. As if their government was any more honest than any other government.
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That isn't the case here.
What is obvious is that some parties will use what ever it is to attack Israel over unconfirmed information.
Information that is purposely stated in negative ways to bring about resentment.

Frankly I do not care if it is true, as I see every country as having the "right " to such if it chooses.
What I do care about is the factuality of the information, which the report is clearly lacking. Which didn't stop the haters from glomming onto it. It seldomly does.


Tucker Case said:
Exactly. The issue is not whether or not there was sterilization, as all parties seem to agree that sterilization occurred. The issue is whether or not the sterilization was done without the informed consent of those who were sterilized.
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Birth control is not sterilization.
The issue seems to be whether or not the "birth control" was done with informed consent.


spanky said:
The difference is the assertion it was "long lasting". I'd like to know how long.
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Ah! I see!
Instead of becoming familiar with what was reported, by reading, you decided to go off the deep end with the accusations. e.g.: Darky

"... We took it every three months. ..."​
 
Redress said:
One does not exclude the other. There are people willing to believe or defend anything when it comes to Israel, good or bad.
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Why, then, is it just more "sad" to defend Israel than it is to immediately believe the worst about them?
 
X Factor said:
Right because there aren't any people out there that are eager to believe every conspiracy theory about Israel, otherwise I'm sure you'd be equally sad about that.
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Sure, there are MEtards that believe and propagate conspiracies about Israel. That's another thread.

Do you believe that the Israeli government is uniquely above reproach?
 
Redress said:
One does not exclude the other. There are people willing to believe or defend anything when it comes to Israel, good or bad.
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I know.

"The Israeli government has tacitly acknowledged injecting Ethiopian women immigrating to Israel with a long-acting contraceptive without their knowledge, telling them they couldn't come into the country if they didn't take the shot, which the women thought was a vaccination."

Who are you going to believe, the State of Israel or you're lying eyes?
 
spanky said:
They're not accusations anymore, the State of Israel has admitted to it.

Am I in an alternate universe?

Where's Walternate?
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:lamo:doh:lamo:doh:lamo


Really?

Someone saying it is a tacit admission does not qualify as an admission.

Please tell me you knew that.
 
mbig said:
You're just repeating yourself.
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When I am faced with a flat out denial of the facts, all I can do is repeat the facts. The fact of the matter is that sterilization, by definition, includes any and all things which render a person incapable of reproducing. The definition does not make note of a time-frame for this incapacity.

You can cite people misusing the word to your heart's content and it will not change that reality.

and Ahem!
Page Not Found - Debate Politics Forums
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Why are you "aheming" me about something that makes no difference to me whatsoever?
 
spanky said:
It appears we now have another tier in the argument.

"Do you honestly believe darkies would be that dumb?"
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It would have to be a very complete, air tight, conspiracy for them to pull it off without a SINGLE patient asking questions and figuring out what's going on. Not a SINGLE employee to whistle-blow. Not an ounce of patient awareness or the slightest bit of morals to be found amoung thousands in the conspiracy.


Or, it is as I explained. What I explained is simply how I would interpret such data, and I conduct sociological research including various kinds of interviews and such. I would not jump to the conclusion of "State Conspiracy!" with my obvious explanation staring me in the face. And, you know what, that researcher (probably) knows this as well and just said "screw it, I'm gonna get my 15".
 
Excon said:
:lamo:doh:lamo:doh:lamo


Really?

Someone saying it is a tacit admission does not qualify as an admission.

Please tell me you knew that.
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ANOTHER TIER!

The State of Israel is a bunch of anti-semites!
 
ecofarm said:
It was not an accusation of racism. It was an accusation that African immigrants are too uninformed to find out what shots they take and what those shots do. Like they would not ask anyone anything. Like "oh, you know their easily fooled, like children!". No, dude. They find out what their doctors give them, they ask questions.
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right, you're just accusing me of thinking Africans are stupid, because it's possible to deceive people EVEN when they ask questions... Yes, of course that isn't some pathetic attempt to toss out racism charges, what's next, comparing my argument to one equating Israel to the Nazi, even though I already pointed out how stupid such a comparison was?





ecofarm said:
That would be a major crime, committed apparently by the state. A crime of, dare I say, Hitler proportions.
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Oh, lawdy, look at that~!!! I was right and you went for the cheap hitler comparison. And no, I made clear the example I was citing was people working independent of the state



ecofarm said:
Lots of crazy crap has happened. The question is, should we indict Israel of forced, unknown, sterilization of a minority population based on 30 interviews by one researcher? I say that's stupid. I say my explanation is obvious, the researcher knew it and the researcher went for 15 minutes on what constitutes a small part of a thesis (if that) and wild (media tasty) conclusions based on that.
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I never endorsed "indicting" Israel. What I did was point out that things like this are not totally unknown in the world and it shouldn't be simply dismissed. You, on the other hand, seem intent on believing something like this could "never" happen.
 
X Factor said:
Why, then, is it just more "sad" to defend Israel than it is to immediately believe the worst about them?
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You are making an irrelevant comparison. Thor did not say that it was more "sad", only that it was sad.
 
Tucker Case said:
When I am faced with a flat out denial of the facts, all I can do is repeat the facts. The fact of the matter is that sterilization, by definition, includes any and all things which render a person incapable of reproducing. The definition does not make note of a time-frame for this incapacity.

You can cite people misusing the word to your heart's content and it will not change that reality.
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DISHONEST short quote by Tucker, what else is new.
Why?
Because a full quote showed/elaborated Why he is wrong.
again:
mbig in full said:
You're just repeating yourself.
I showed this was wrong, that Sterilization is a Permanent surgical procedure and Depo Provera, temporary chemical Birth Control.

If it was involuntarily given, it was wrong, in either case.
But they are two DIFFERENT Cases.
The women were Not sterilized and sterilization is not temporary.
Simple Misuse.
Unfortunately and Obstinately repeated.
and no doubt a 3rd contortion is coming, but it will not be responded to.
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Tucker said:
Why are you "aheming" me about something that makes no difference to me whatsoever?
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The "ahem" was to the board in general
I suggest you stick to continuing to try to Dishonestly deal with the part that was directed to you. Or better yet, sincerely deal with it. Admit Sterlization is permanent, and Depo isn't.
 
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Dr. Chuckles said:
I never endorsed "indicting" Israel. What I did was point out that things like this are not totally unknown in the world and it shouldn't be simply dismissed. You, on the other hand, seem intent on believing something like this could "never" happen.
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I think it is extremely unlikely that there is a Hitler-like conspiracy and

I have a very good explanation for the data (gathered by merely 1 researcher from merely 30 people).
 
Tucker Case said:
Not all forms are. Condoms aren't, for example.

Only the forms of BC which render a person infertile are sterilization.
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As the egg can still be fertilized, you are wrong in regards to this discussion.
 
ecofarm said:
It would have to be a very complete, air tight, conspiracy for them to pull it off without a SINGLE patient asking questions and figuring out what's going on. Not a SINGLE employee to whistle-blow. Not an ounce of patient awareness or the slightest bit of morals to be found amoung thousands in the conspiracy.


Or, it is as I explained. What I explained is simply how I would interpret such data, and I conduct sociological research including various kinds of interviews and such. I would not jump to the conclusion of "State Conspiracy!" with my obvious explanation staring me in the face. And, you know what, that researcher (probably) knows this as well and just said "screw it, I'm gonna get my 15".
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AND ANOTHER!

"For this to be true the conspiracy is too widespread for it not to have come out sooner."
 
Redress said:
Not to dilute your nice emotional rant with actual logic, but just because another country does inappropriate(to put it mildly) things does not in any vway make these allegations, if true, any less inappropriate.
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next time think before typing...and next time try logic if your patting yourself proactively that you are attempting to make a point and using logic..which you are not..

My point is "fake outrage" being displayed by an obvious bigot ( not you)...
 
mbig said:
DISHONEST short quote by Tucker, what else is new.
Why?
Because a full quote shows why he is wrong.
again:
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As I said before, citing people using the word incorrectly does not prove me wrong,. It only proves that you are also ignorant of what the word actually means. It's like the way you are ignorant of what the word dishonest means.

The "ahem was to the boatrd in general
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Ah, so the problem is that you are simply incompetent at posting. Noted.
 
spanky said:
ANOTHER TIER!

The State of Israel is a bunch of anti-semites!
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There is no tier there.
You thinking there is is hilarious.

A supposed tacit admission is not an actual admission, especially to what you want to believe.
Tell me you already knew that.
 
mbig said:
DISHONEST short quote by Tucker, what else is new.
Why?
Because a full quote shows Why he is wrong.
again:

The "ahem was to the boatrd in general
I suggest you stick to continuing to try to Dishonestly deal with the lpart that was directed to you.
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You are going to great lengths to argue a point that is irrelevant to the charges in the OP. I find that interesting. Whether it is called temporary sterilization, birth control, or anything else does not change the nature of the allegation.
 
spanky said:
"For this to be true the conspiracy is to widespread for it not to have come out sooner."
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I think that's a reasonable point. It's just too major and too big to go unnoticed for so long.

But MORE IMPORTANTLY, I've explained the data, sans CT.
 
Excon said:
As the egg can still be fertilized, you are wrong in regards to this discussion.
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:prof the egg can still be fertilized after a tubal ligation, so your made up parameters sterilization are clearly incorrect.
 
Tucker Case said:
So? That's true of a woman with a tubal ligation as well.
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And let me guess?
You think that somehow makes them sterile?
Right?
Sorry, it doesn't.

Tucker Case said:
:prof the egg can still be fertilized after a tubal ligation, so your made up parameters sterilization are clearly incorrect.
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D'oh! Clearly they haven't been sterilized then. :doh
 
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