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Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

Tucker Case said:
It's temporary sterilization. (sterilization does not need to be permanent in order to be sterlization)

And if it was done without the consent of those who were temporarily sterlized, it doesn't matter what intellectual acrobatics one goes through to justify the action, it's simply wrong.
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I would Disagree.
Sterilization is a Permanent procedure.

If one Googles 'Depo-Provera', (the apparent agent here) one will see constant use of "Birth Control" but none on page one (as far as I looked) of sterilization.
The First Link in fact is Planned Parenthood and they refer to it (and 3 mo injections of such) as Birth Control.
The same org does describe Sterilization and it's modes and Permanence
Sterilization for Women - Tubal Ligation Procedure - Essure - Adiana ...

As Does the Mayo Clinic
Birth control: Sterilization - MayoClinic.com
Non-reversible, Unlike Depo, which is Temporary Chemical Birth control.
Sterilization would be a surgical procedure.
 
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Dr. Chuckles said:
One option you are overlooking is that individuals, possibly large and influential groups of them, administered this program independent of the state, but through official channels. Israelis can be extremely nationalist, especially on the fringe
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Could be national or industry CT, true.

Or... it could be the obvious explanation that I presented.
 
spanky said:
Just so I get this straight, and investigative report turned up the evidence, Israel denied it, when shown more proof they admitted it and THEN changed their policy.

I guess it never happened.
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your over reaction to this story tells me all I need to know about you.... amazing how we find out so much...

In Saudi Arabia they just kill women ...Im sure you are enraged over that..
 
Excon said:
Crap! Nothing.
Is there a quote in that piece that passes as an article for you?
That article that they got from the atlantablackstar?

Tacitly? iLOL

It is the same information.
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The difference is the assertion it was "long lasting". I'd like to know how long.
 
Travis007 said:
your over reaction to this story tells me all I need to know about you.... amazing how we find out so much...

In Saudi Arabia they just kill women ...Im sure you are enraged over that..
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Ahh, the idiotic "I know I am but what are they?" argument.
 
Thorgasm said:
It's pretty sad how people refuse to believe anything negative about the Israeli government. As if their government was any more honest than any other government.
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Yeah, like people not believing 911 was an inside job!!


Seriously, this is not just "anything". These are pretty damn serious accusations based on questions asked by a single person to 30 other people. I expect to be proven correct in my theory explaining this. The researcher jumped the gun for the media bang. I could come up with anything using the rights questions in Kenya and create outrageous accusations. I know how easy it would be to do that, thus I'm skeptical.
 
spanky said:
I'm no Pali fan and I do have a respect for Israel, but after what we've seen what the State of Israel would do to actual Jews who have established their provenance through matrilineal heritage, what would stop them from doing anything they wanted to non Jew Muslims?
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give me a break... you are transparent as a ghost as are a few others here..
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
One option you are overlooking is that individuals, possibly large and influential groups of them, administered this program independent of the state, but through official channels. Israelis can be extremely nationalist, especially on the fringe
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yes, the "Health Ministry of Israel" is a fringe group.
 
ecofarm said:
Could be national or industry CT, true.

Or... it could be the obvious explanation that I presented.
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Nothing like that, but just a group of like minded health care workers in these camps.
 
spanky said:
Based upon what you've read, do you have any doubt?
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Some. Israel is such a hotbutton issue that I have developed a healthy skepticism of all claims from both sides until I have reviewed all of the information fully for myself. I have neither seen the documentary in question, nor have I read the Israeli "admission" itself. Until I review these things for myself, I remain somewhat skeptical of the idea that there was some sort of government sanctioned sterilization program.
 
ecofarm said:
Yeah, like people not believing 911 was an inside job!!


Seriously, this is not just "anything". These are pretty damn serious accusations based on questions asked by a single person to 30 other people. I expect to be proven correct in my theory explaining this. The researcher jumped the gun for the media bang. I could come up with anything using the rights questions in Kenya and create outrageous accusations. I know how easy it would be to do that, thus I'm skeptical.
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They're not accusations anymore, the State of Israel has admitted to it.

Am I in an alternate universe?

Where's Walternate?
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
Nothing like that, but just a group of like minded health care workers in these camps.
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I happen to know that even "stupid Africans" will ask what a shot does. You're claiming it was deliberately hidden from them, no one else in the camp asked questions, none of the women asked questions? Too much.
 
spanky said:
They're not accusations anymore, the State of Israel has admitted to it.

Am I in an alternate universe?

Where's Walternate?
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Israel said that it wanted to make extra sure that the women knew what the shot did. It did not admit to giving women the shot without their knowledge in an organized plan.
 
This story reaks of antisemtism....... Israel wants Jews to come to Israel.. they are actively solicting Etheopian Jews to come to Israel...
 
spanky said:
They're not accusations anymore, the State of Israel has admitted to it.

Am I in an alternate universe?

Where's Walternate?
Click to expand...



Ajad what time is the call to prayer?
 
mbig said:
I would Disagree.
Sterilization is a Permanent procedure.

If one Googles 'Depo-Provera', (the apparent agent here) one will see constant use of "Birth Control" but none on page one (as far as I looked) of sterilization.
The First Link in fact is Planned Parenthood and they refer to it as Birth Control.
The same org does describe Sterilization and it's modes and Permanence
Sterilization for Women - Tubal Ligation Procedure - Essure - Adiana ...

As Does the Mayo Clinic
Birth control: Sterilization - MayoClinic.com
Non-reversible, Unlike Depo, Temporary Chemical Birth control.
Sterilization would be a surgical procedure.
Click to expand...

Forms of birth control which render a person infertile are forms of sterilization, by the definition of the word sterilization.

It doesn't matter how many people or organizations use the word incorrectly. If used correctly, it includes chemical sterilization methods which are temporary.
 
ecofarm said:
I happen to know that even "stupid Africans" will ask what a shot does.
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1)well, no one said anything about "stupid africans" and rather resent the needless, though vague, accusation of racism

2)people can ask questions, but short of doing a chemical analysis, it seems one could still be deceived in such circumstances.

ecofarm said:
You're claiming it was deliberately hidden from them, no one else in the camp asked questions, none of the women asked questions? Too much.
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people have been given improper injections purposely in the US before, at hospitals that are likely much more organized than these camps. Now, am I saying it happened? No, I was actually pretty clear that it was a possible scenario that belonged with the others you listed.
 
Thorgasm said:
It's pretty sad how people refuse to believe anything negative about the Israeli government. As if their government was any more honest than any other government.
Click to expand...

Right because there aren't any people out there that are eager to believe every conspiracy theory about Israel, otherwise I'm sure you'd be equally sad about that.
 
Travis007 said:
This story reaks of antisemtism....... Israel wants Jews to come to Israel.. they are actively solicting Etheopian Jews to come to Israel...
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So let me summarize the argument so far...

First there was "It's A LIE put out by anti-Semitics!"

Then "Okay they did it, but it wasn't STERILIZATION!"

Followed by "Okay it WAS sterilization, but it wasn't without their consent!"

Again "Okay, they just told them it was a "morning sickness vaccine", but seriously, who would believe that?"

To "It wasn't a policy of the State of Israel!".

Going to "Okay, it was the Health Ministry of the State of Israel, but was done by a bunch of whackos in the MHI!"

Ending up in the full circle.."You're just and anti-semite!"
 
Dr. Chuckles said:
1)well, no one said anything about "stupid africans" and rather resent the needless, though vague, accusation of racism
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It was not an accusation of racism. It was an accusation that African immigrants are too uninformed to find out what shots they take and what those shots do. Like they would not ask anyone anything. Like "oh, you know their easily fooled, like children!". No, dude. They find out what their doctors give them, they ask questions.

2)people can ask questions, but short of doing a chemical analysis, it seems one could still be deceived in such circumstances.
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That would be a major crime, committed apparently by the state. A crime of, dare I say, Hitler proportions.

people have been given improper injections purposely in the US before, at hospitals that are likely much more organized than these camps. Now, am I saying it happened? No, I was actually pretty clear that it was a possible scenario that belonged with the others you listed.
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Lots of crazy crap has happened. The question is, should we indict Israel of forced, unknown, sterilization of a minority population based on 30 interviews by one researcher? I say that's stupid. I say my explanation is obvious, the researcher knew it and the researcher went for 15 minutes on what constitutes a small part of a thesis (if that) and wild (media tasty) conclusions based on that.
 
X Factor said:
Right because there aren't any people out there that are eager to believe every conspiracy theory about Israel, otherwise I'm sure you'd be equally sad about that.
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One does not exclude the other. There are people willing to believe or defend anything when it comes to Israel, good or bad.
 
Tucker Case said:
Forms of birth control which render a person infertile are forms of sterilization, by the definition of the word sterilization.
It doesn't matter how many people or organizations use the word incorrectly. If used , it includes chemical sterilization methods which are temporary.
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You're just repeating yourself.
I showed this was wrong, that Sterilization is a Permanent surgical procedure and Depo Provera, temporary chemical Birth Control.

If it was involuntarily given, it was wrong, in either case.
But they are two DIFFERENT Cases.
The women were Not sterilized and sterilization is not temporary.
Simple Misuse.
Unfortunately and Obstinately repeated.
and no doubt a 3rd contortion is coming, but it will not be responded to.

and COUGH!
http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...edia/81020-new-rule-breaking-news-forums.html
 
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