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Thread: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

  1. #561
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    This is nothing new really:

    "I recently (Oct. 2006) exchanged emails with a friend in Jerusalem. He is adamant. Ethiopian Jews are not Jewish. To bolster his point, he cites DNA evidence, evidence that, at most, can indicate that Ethiopian Jews not descended from the southern tribes of Israel, primarily Judah and Levi. He also cites Hebrew University's Steven Kaplan, who believes Ethiopian Jews adopted Judaism in the early Middle Ages as part of a wave of Judaization sweeping Ethiopia. (Kaplan himself fully supports EJ aliya and absorption, and is very clear on those points.) There is also evidence of this noted by another academic who specializes in Ethiopian song.

    "The point of this post is not to refute this belief, but I will make one simple point regarding it: Nothing these academics believe and nothing in that DNA evidence precludes conversion to Judaism. In other words, at best this evidence proves not that Ethiopian Jews are goyyim, but that Ethiopian Jews may be converts. And, when you factor in what academics of equal stature say in opposition, or what many others say – based on solid evidence – about the lineage of Ashkenazi Jews, for example, or the 'unity' of the Tribes of Israel, one quickly realizes that all of this evidence is a two-edged sword; what cuts the black Jews you so dislike cuts you, deeply, as well....

    "I would think that if a people had suffered so much and risked so much for Judaism and Israel, we would, at the very least, be civil toward them. We certainly would want to help them out of danger and distress, and do whatever is necessary to help them succeed. Yet, in the Ashkenazi Orthodox world (especially in the American part of it) the opposite is often the case. Here is a quote from an email sent to me by a leading member of the RCA: "[A leading Orthodox professor with close ties to Chabad] once said that the poskim who affirmed the certain Jewishness of the Ethiopian Jews were those who did not read a European language." This is a racist slap at the dozens of Sefardic poskim who hold, just like Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, that Ethiopian Jews are 100% Jewish. Needless to say, this Orthodox professor is not known as a friend to Ethiopian Jews in any way, not even following Rabbi Feinstein's minimalist position quoted above – a position, by the way, endorsed by Rabbi J.B. Soleveitchik and dozens of others, as well.

    "I think this all points to a larger malaise in Orthodoxy, a malaise that has turned morality into "what can we get away with" rather than "what is the ideal we should strive for."


    Ethiopian Jews And Orthodox Jewish Racism - FailedMessiah.com
    Last edited by shanners; 02-02-13 at 01:12 PM.
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  2. #562
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by shanners View Post
    This is nothing new really:

    "I recently (Oct. 2006) exchanged emails with a friend in Jerusalem. He is adamant. Ethiopian Jews are not Jewish. To bolster his point, he cites DNA evidence, evidence that, at most, can indicate that Ethiopian Jews not descended from the southern tribes of Israel, primarily Judah and Levi. He also cites Hebrew University's Steven Kaplan, who believes Ethiopian Jews adopted Judaism in the early Middle Ages as part of a wave of Judaization sweeping Ethiopia. (Kaplan himself fully supports EJ aliya and absorption, and is very clear on those points.) There is also evidence of this noted by another academic who specializes in Ethiopian song.

    "The point of this post is not to refute this belief, but I will make one simple point regarding it: Nothing these academics believe and nothing in that DNA evidence precludes conversion to Judaism. In other words, at best this evidence proves not that Ethiopian Jews are goyyim, but that Ethiopian Jews may be converts. And, when you factor in what academics of equal stature say in opposition, or what many others say based on solid evidence about the lineage of Ashkenazi Jews, for example, or the 'unity' of the Tribes of Israel, one quickly realizes that all of this evidence is a two-edged sword; what cuts the black Jews you so dislike cuts you, deeply, as well....

    "I would think that if a people had suffered so much and risked so much for Judaism and Israel, we would, at the very least, be civil toward them. We certainly would want to help them out of danger and distress, and do whatever is necessary to help them succeed. Yet, in the Ashkenazi Orthodox world (especially in the American part of it) the opposite is often the case. Here is a quote from an email sent to me by a leading member of the RCA: "[A leading Orthodox professor with close ties to Chabad] once said that the poskim who affirmed the certain Jewishness of the Ethiopian Jews were those who did not read a European language." This is a racist slap at the dozens of Sefardic poskim who hold, just like Rabbi Ovadia Yosef, that Ethiopian Jews are 100% Jewish. Needless to say, this Orthodox professor is not known as a friend to Ethiopian Jews in any way, not even following Rabbi Feinstein's minimalist position quoted above a position, by the way, endorsed by Rabbi J.B. Soleveitchik and dozens of others, as well.

    "I think this all points to a larger malaise in Orthodoxy, a malaise that has turned morality into "what can we get away with" rather than "what is the ideal we should strive for."


    Ethiopian Jews And Orthodox Jewish Racism - FailedMessiah.com
    It seems to me that Israel needs all the Jews it can get.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  3. #563
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    That is clearly not what is happening since the worst a dose of Depo-Provera can do is delay conception by a few months.
    A few months each time it is administered. If it is administered regularly every few months for the reproductive life of the unwitting patient, the effect is no different than if they had been more permanently sterilized once.

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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    A few months each time it is administered. If it is administered regularly every few months for the reproductive life of the unwitting patient, the effect is no different than if they had been more permanently sterilized once.
    This is true. If they were actually being treated this way in an ongoing fashion without knowledge of what was going on then I can see no excuse. Is it true that they were not being told that this was birth control? That's what activists are claiming.

    Amid controversy, Israel issues new birth-control guidelines - Los Angeles Times

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

  5. #565
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Really, Tuck. I put on a condom and that makes me sterile?
    Of course not. You are not rendered incapable of reproducing by a condom, your sperm is simply blocked from meeting the egg. Your biological mechanisms are unchanged.

    Read post #549 if you are still having difficulties with determining the operational mechanisms of different birth control methods.
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    The article you link seems to confirm what I said.
    No it doesn't. There was no requirement of permanence in the Websters definition. That would directly contradict what you have said.
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  7. #567
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    This is true.
    And thus my point about sterilization.
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gie View Post
    One can only hope you have a less occluded concept of "contraception" for the sake of an internet argument, than you do "sterilization". Alas, for the sake of an internet argument, that is doubtful. Onward brave internet warrior! Surely the mark of true internet valor, the Boozelnutbruarerawba crown waits you in Valhalla! Where presumably(hopefully)actual sterilization is a practice!
    So your mother did not teach you how to use a dictionary. Sort of like the old saying about how the shoemaker's son is always in need of shoes, isn't it?
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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Moderator's Warning:
    Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]The personal attacks will stop now. It's okay if you want to argue about what the dictionary says instead of what Israel may or may not be doing... but you're going to do it like civilized adults.

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    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    No it doesn't. There was no requirement of permanence in the Websters definition. That would directly contradict what you have said.
    Ok, so this is quoted from the definition you linked:

    : to make sterile: as

    b (1) : to deprive of the power of reproducing <surgically sterilize cats and dogs> (2) : to make incapable of germination
    Sounds awfully permanent, especially the example about surgery.

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." --HL Mencken

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