Page 39 of 61 FirstFirst ... 29373839404149 ... LastLast
Results 381 to 390 of 603

Thread: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

  1. #381
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Canada, Costa Rica
    Last Seen
    05-16-16 @ 09:45 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,645

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    "sterilize"?
    More hyperbole?
    Yes, that seems to be the case. I should have waited and learned more.

    This is not what we have come to expect from the Israelis.

  2. #382
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,435

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    I never said you were wrong, only that your arguments are not actually based on the data, but what you think the data is
    We know what the data is:

    1. Talking to 35 people. Results: a couple inflamatory and context lacking quotes presented in a leading manner.
    2. Some population numbers without citations. Results: population crash of genocidal proportions or something like that.


    Ok, what do I do with it? I think I've done what's possible.

  3. #383
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:21 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    a number of people. Just go back and read the thread
    Here's every post in the thread up to that point. Who was refusing to believe anything negative about Israel (since, presumably, that's what was so sad about this thread)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent - Middle East - World - The Independent



    Damn, just damn. I'm normally pretty outspoken in defense of the Israeli regime... but there's just no excuse for this.
    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    WOW. Since these fine Israeli folks are our allies this clearly racist treatment will be forgiven. I will bet no US MSM picks this little tidbit up for publication.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jredbaron96 View Post
    Smooth Israel. Real smooth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    This is damned wrong.

    This appears to be the problem from Israel's POV.


    If that's the case then they should have another look at the Law of Return, but the response is certainly not to sterilize women.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    "sterilize"?
    More hyperbole?
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Can't have a bunch of darkies running around Jerusalem calling themselves Jews.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Holy ****!
    Will folks pay attention to that which came before?

    Haaretz published an extract from a letter sent by the Ministry of Health to units administering the drug. Doctors were told “not to renew prescriptions for Depo Provera for women of Ethiopian origin if for any reason there is concern that they might not understand the ramifications of the treatment”.

    AND


    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Before assuming that Israel was giving birth control en masse to Ethiopian Jews without their consent I would like to see the official report, not media ramblings.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Well, the number was 30 because that was the number of Ethiopians the journalist interviewed. The hit rate was 100%. Wonder what it would be if they interviewed all 100k?
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Yes, I'm sure the official report will not be a white wash.
    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yeah, and the media assertion that Israel sterilized 100,000 without their consent and them knowing based off of media sources is entirely accurate and should be accepted

    People with a bias against Israel or a desire to believe that they are an evil nation will accept anything from any source that is critical of the nation without digging any deeper and trying to find facts without the spin associated with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Haaretz published an extract from a letter sent by the Ministry of Health to units administering the drug. Doctors were told “not to renew prescriptions for Depo Provera for women of Ethiopian origin if for any reason there is concern that they might not understand the ramifications of the treatment”.

    And you do not understand the above?
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Always check the source of the story, if this came Iranian media then I say take the information with a crate of salt
    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    Depo-Prova is a temporary birth control method. As new, impoverished immigrants, it might not be the best time to have more children. It is not sterilization.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    It was based on the investigative report of an Israeli Jew.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Just so I get this straight, and investigative report turned up the evidence, Israel denied it, when shown more proof they admitted it and THEN changed their policy.

    I guess it never happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I would like to see more information before judging what happened. I will state that if the shots were administered without the knowledge and consent of those receiving them, those responsible should be removed from the health industry, barred from further medical practice, and subject to compensating those who received the shots and for any criminal prosecution to which they could be held accountable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Since everyone seems more interested in tossing about various accusations:



    Israel admits Ethiopian women were given birth control shots Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    It's temporary sterilization. (sterilization does not need to be permanent in order to be sterlization)

    And if it was done without the consent of those who were temporarily sterlized, it doesn't matter what intellectual acrobatics one goes through to justify the action, it's simply wrong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    Ok, now have some background to the story, I have a question. Why would Israel do such a thing
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    tensions between the two communities is nothing new, and only have seemed to increase with israel's recent issues with illegal immagration from Africa

    Ethiopian Jews' feeling that they have been wronged is not detached from reality, a reality that we must change," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Sunday.



    Olmert: Ethiopian Jews are right to feel discriminated against - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

    not sure why people get so bent out of shape about this stuff on both sides of the isle. It doesn't amount to Israelis being Nazis, and it surely doesn't mean everyone who takes an interest in the subject wants to reopen the gas chambers. People are racist, the state is trying to deal with the issue, get over it people
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Notice the word games the supporters of this heinous policy of the State of Israel employ.

    Well, it WASN'T sterilization! (no, it was forced birth control, like it makes a difference).

    It was TEMPORARY sterilization...oops, I mean birth control!

    PROVE it was done without their consent! ("It's just an inoculation. If you want entry into Israel you HAVE to take this or you won't be admitted, we don't need a bunch of darkies running around the Temple. TAKE THE RED PILL MOFO OR YOU'RE GOING BACK TO YOUR MUD HUT!")
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    "Morning sickness vaccine" ~ pretty clever.
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Oy vey!
    Something may have happened.
    It is the actual facts as to what happened as well as the interpretations of them.
    You do understand that, right?



    You seem not to understand that the statement points to their possibly being a misunderstanding.

    Which this could be from the get.
    A misunderstanding where those treated thought they had to take the injections.
    And not something nefarious.

    Show otherwise, if not, spare us the hyperbole and Jew hatred and wait for more information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Yeah, as ****ed up as the story is, that line needs to be appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    "Today, there are 81,000 Ethiopian Israelis who were born in Ethiopia, while 38,500 or 32% of the community are native born Israelis."

    The "aliyah" of Beta Israel (notice they're not called Alpha Israel, from the get go they were designated second class Jews) operated in the '70's, '80's and into the '90's. In all that time from 1970 their reproduction results are 50%. One child for every couple from between 20-40 years.

    Why did it take so long to uncover this tragedy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Really?
    You want to engage in some sort of semantics.
    It wasn't sterilization as it does not make the person sterile.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    The only misunderstanding is among Israel apologists.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Okay, it wasn't permanent sterilization.

    How does that change the story?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    seems the program made them "incapable of reproduction." on a temporary basis. And being that the definition of sterilization is "any procedure by which an individual is made incapable of reproduction" it seems like a good fit

    sterilization - definition of sterilization in the Medical dictionary - by the Free Online Medical Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

    Or would you prefer "the chemical prevention of reproduction" to just be difficult?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    So while they were injected with these shots they had the ability to reproduce?
    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Considering who started the thread, I wouldn't worry about it. Then 2 responses from pretty solid conservatives saying it was wrong...

    I'm just saying that at first that's exactly what I expected from the thread, but then I read it and saw that wasn't it.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Israel Admits ‘Shameful’ Birth Control Drug Injected in Unaware Ethiopian Jews

    Israel Admits

    The Israeli government has tacitly acknowledged injecting Ethiopian women immigrating to Israel with a long-acting contraceptive without their knowledge, telling them they couldn't come into the country if they didn't take the shot, which the women thought was a vaccination.

    Many have called the practice appallingly racist.

    The shots are being blamed for a 50 percent drop in the birth rate in Israel's Ethiopian community over the past decade.

    There are about 120,000 Jews of Ethiopian origin living in Israel, about a third of them born in Israel. There have long been conspiracy theories circulating about forced sterilization. But after a documentary aired last month on Israel's Educational Network, Health Ministry Director General Ron Gamzu has banned Israel's health maintenance organizations from injecting Ethiopian women with the contraceptive Depo-Provera.

    CRAP! WE GOT CAUGHT!
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    You have yet to show that it was actually forced.
    You have yet to show that an actual policy existed to force such.
    All you have shown is your propensity to engage in hyperbole for nefarious purposes.



    Like I said, "for nefarious purposes".
    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    We are speaking biology folks. This isn't hard.
    They were not rendered sterile at all.

    1 a process or act that renders a person unable to produce children. See also hysterectomy, tubal ligation, vasectomy.

    They were and still are able to "produce" children.
    They were not sterilized.
    Quote Originally Posted by spanky View Post
    Because they're darkies?
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Which is why I cited a medical dictionary ...




    did the process leave them "unable to produce children"? Yes, on a temporary basis. Hence "temporary sterilization".

    Not sure how this really speaks to the issue though
    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    For many developing world women, reproductive control is a difficult thing. Men have control in households and taking a pill each day might not fly. As these women are aware of the impacts of having many children, they are desperate for a way to control their lives and the lives of their children. Under such circumstance, I can see two things possibly happening:

    1. The woman take the shot because they know they do not need another child, at least not so close to another birth, and their husband will not go along with daily pills.
    2. The women feign ignorance when asked during what would become a public investigation, to excuse their actions from their husbands.


    Now, maybe Israel did sterilize immigrants out of racism and state purity, but the above explanation has at least as much chance of being the driving force.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    It's pretty sad how people refuse to believe anything negative about the Israeli government. As if their government was any more honest than any other government.
    Last edited by X Factor; 01-29-13 at 11:15 PM.

  4. #384
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Why are you piling on spanky? I believe his "points" can be considered strawmen at this point in the discussion, as he demands that uncited numbers and unreviewed data be dismantled immediately. Well, there's nothing to dismantle. It's a TV show, with uncited numbers and a few quotes that it most certainly fished for, perhaps with the knowledge of gender population stuff I've highlighted (which would make it pretty evil).

    Show me something cited or reviewed, otherwise you're asking me to debate with Glen Beck.
    I'm not asking you to debate with anyone, and my main point of contention has been the lack of information pointing in either direction. You seem to think that demands an assertion from ignorance in support of the Israelis, others think it proves a eugenics program. Ma, I like information and drawing my conclusions from that.

    Information in a news paper or TV is clearly evidence. You can question the quality of that evidence, but don't act as if it has no value. Especially when you're seemingly unaware what the actual content was

  5. #385
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:21 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    HAHAHA~!!! So the vague accusations of antisemitism now swing my way. Why not just go play with Spanky and save us the pointless dribble
    And, once again, I'm not accusing anyone of anti-Semitism.

  6. #386
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Last Seen
    02-04-13 @ 12:21 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    198

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    More than 100,000 black Jews in Israel and only 40 of them accidentally got a birth control injection without fully understanding the ramifications.

    Wow, I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!!!

    Someone should form a committee to do an inquiry into a Truth Commission!!!

    Such dastardly and despicable deeds cannot go delinquently unjustified!!!!!!

  7. #387
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Spring99 View Post
    More than 100,000 black Jews in Israel and only 40 of them accidentally got a birth control injection without fully understanding the ramifications.

    Wow, I'm shocked I tell you, shocked!!!

    Someone should form a committee to do an inquiry into a Truth Commission!!!

    Such dastardly and despicable deeds cannot go delinquently unjustified!!!!!!
    as pointed out, that was the number interviewed, and it was never offered as an exhaustive count

  8. #388
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:10 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,435

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    Information in a news paper or TV is clearly evidence. Clearly you can question the quality of that evidence, but don't act as if it has no value. Especially when you're seemingly unaware what the actual content was
    Has the TV show released the "study"? I don't think so. They generally don't. It's not reviewed, there's no real methods (beyond perhaps looking for opportunities to get inflamatory quotes based on the household and socioeconomic conditions of sources). I don't think it will be released.

    The show has released the results. That's all we got to work with:

    1. A couple inflamatory quotes.
    2. Uncited pop data.

    How many times do I have to repeat this before you understand that there is nothing more to the TV Show's "story".

  9. #389
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    And, once again, I'm not accusing anyone of anti-Semitism.
    of course ...

  10. #390
    King Conspiratard
    Dr. Chuckles's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Last Seen
    02-13-14 @ 03:04 PM
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    12,895

    re: Israel gave birth control to Ethiopian Jews without their consent [W:283,569]

    [QUOTE=ecofarm;1061406246]Has the TV show released the "study"? I don't think so. They generally don't. It's not reviewed, there's no real methods (beyond perhaps looking for opportunities to get inflamatory quotes based on the household and socioeconomic conditions of sources). I don't think it will be released.[/quotes]

    it's a tv show not a study. They interviewed people. People said things. This is evidence. Inconclusive, but still evidence



    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    How many times do I have to repeat this before you understand that there is nothing more to the TV Show's "story".
    I understand it's a tv show. That was never in dispute. What was in dispute was your ability to critique information that you didn't have access to

Page 39 of 61 FirstFirst ... 29373839404149 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •