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Thread: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    The senators and everyone in D.C. had better pay attention to what nine out of 10 commenters are writing at the bottom of all the internet news feed articles about the amnesty for illegals lunacy: Don't do it!



    The framework agreement is the result of political leaders paying attention to broad national sentiment. Repeated opinion polls and 2012 election exit polls have shown that a majority of Americans believe undocumented immigrants should have a path to citizenship. Those expressing outrage over the framework agreement, imperfect but reasonable, do not reflect national sentiment as a whole. Not surprisingly, even as bipartisanship has been difficult to come by in recent years, the framework agreement was bipartisan in nature. Political and demographic realism drove that outcome.

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    [/I]The framework agreement is the result of political leaders paying attention to broad national sentiment.
    Absolutely false!

    The "bipartisan" agreement, though mostly Dems and some caving Repubs, is nevertheless all about a get-the-former-illegals'-vote pandering, and mostly nothing more.

    It is bad, bad, bad for the U.S. as truly informed non-ideologues most certainly know.


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Repeated opinion polls and 2012 election exit polls have shown that a majority of Americans believe undocumented immigrants should have a path to citizenship.
    Absolutely meaningless from an intelligent, informed decision perspective.

    None of these polls first present the realities of illegals, their trespassing, identity forging, jobs/classroom/etc. resource stealing from American citizens, their significant role in reducing the tax base and increasing tax rates, how they over-crowd residences and greatly contribute to intollerable population densities, how they close down emergency care centers, how they put American citizens and legal immigrants out of work, that there are 20 million illegals, not "11 million", that legalizing 20 million illegals will cause wage scales to plummet, that doing so will most certainly likely spiral us into a depression, that these 20 million are not "immigrants" but multiple-crime criminals and that it is not only economically crazy to legalize them but it's immoral and unethical with respect to justice for all American citizens and legal immigrants that the illegals have greatly harmed!

    Thus many taking the polls who are not properly informed immediately prior to taking the polls, provide results based on ignorance, and the D.C. politicians know this -- hell, every reasonably intelligent person knows this!

    The results against legalizing 20 million illegals, against pardoning them of their egreigous crimes against fellow American citizens, against letting them keep their ill-gotten gains, those poll results reflect intelligent informed and ethical people who respect their fellow citizens and justice, and the rule of law.

    The results for legalization, those reflect the uninformed and those of the party who think their party will get the lion's share of the legalized illegals' votes!


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Those expressing outrage over the framework agreement, imperfect but reasonable, do not reflect national sentiment as a whole.
    Meaningless.

    The intelligent and informed and ethical Americans who express outrage over amnesty and legalization are reflected as a still significant chunk of the population .. and, they are very, very pissed and rightly so.

    And if the uninformed who aren't part of the party-animal power play were accurately informed as I presented above here, oh you better believe they too would be against amnesty and legalization.

    Yes, if all Americans were accurately and completely informed as I have presented in this thread, the true national sentiment would be greatly in favor of illegals returning to from where they came.

    That's an obvious no-brainer .. and it's highly unethical of people to point to the great numbers of consequence-uninformed people and make an obvious erroneous conclusion about the valuless and meaningless "national sentiment" from polls of greatly uninformed people.

    Our reprentatives our entrusted to support American citizens, to do the right thing by us all no matter how many uninformed unintelligent people weigh in from an emotional, ignorant, or political power-play perspective.

    Our D.C. representatives, they all know the consequences of amnesty and legalization, and they know the number is 20 million, not 11 million illegals.

    But all they care about are votes, votes to keep them and their party in power.

    That's egregious reprehensible behavior on their part, on Obama's, Reids, everyones, left, and right, Dem and Repub alike!

    They're selling American citizens down the river, hoping they can refer to the polls as their excuse, that there'll be too many ignorant and uninformed that will keep the backlash down.

    But they have another thing comming!


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Not surprisingly, even as bipartisanship has been difficult to come by in recent years, the framework agreement was bipartisan in nature.
    Meaningless.

    "Bipartisan" in this issue really means "both parties think they have a shot at getting the illegals' votes once they're legalized, millions and millions of new votes".

    The left and right -wingers, extremists, are out of the mainstream big time on this one.

    If this passes, there will be major hell to pay!

    I shudder to think!


    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Political and demographic realism drove that outcome.
    Yeah .. political greed and the realistic possibility of the wing-nut parties adding more votes to their election results!

    The Repubs were too afraid that the Dems had the realistic chance of getting most of those votes if they too didn't weigh in with "great rhetoric" on supporting amnesty and legalization.

    It's all about two wing-nut parties wanting more votes, and at the great tragic expense of the American citizens they are supposed to be representing.

    Utilitarianism at it's sickening worst!

    Power corrupting, absolutely!
    Last edited by Ontologuy; 01-28-13 at 10:59 PM.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Yes, if all Americans were accurately and completely informed as I have presented in this thread, the true national sentiment would be greatly in favor of illegals returning to from where they came.
    You have self-described yourself as being accurately and completely informed on the subject, yet all you really post is hyperbole. Hmmmm.

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    You have self-described yourself as being accurately and completely informed on the subject, yet all you really post is hyperbole. Hmmmm.
    Your statement is false, meaningless .. and betrays its ideological origin.

    I have posted no hyperbole of any kind.

    I have posted the accurate, informed truth on the issue that is well known ..

    .. Denied only by ideologues and party-animals thinking their party will win the lion's share of the legalized illegals' votes.



    It is so very sad that American citizens who know better are still immorally, unethically bent on selling their fellow Americans down the river in the name of power.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Your statement is false, meaningless .. and betrays its ideological origin.

    I have posted no hyperbole of any kind.

    I have posted the accurate, informed truth on the issue that is well known ..

    .. Denied only by ideologues and party-animals thinking their party will win the lion's share of the legalized illegals' votes.



    It is so very sad that American citizens who know better are still immorally, unethically bent on selling their fellow Americans down the river in the name of power.
    I'm guessing you're not a fan of the 14th Amendment? "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Any illegal born here, should, under the 14th Amendment, be a citizen of the United States.

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Americans making excuses for law breakers but who have no qualms jailing an American citizen for "non-violent" crimes.

    Hypocrites and liars.

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    I'm guessing you're not a fan of the 14th Amendment? "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

    Any illegal born here, should, under the 14th Amendment, be a citizen of the United States.
    Meaningless rhetoric.

    Unless you're grossly uninformed, you know that the amnesty-for-illegals issue is greatly about pardoning the 20 million trespassers, identity forgers and jobs/classrooms/other resource-stealers of their multiple crimes, letting them keep their ill-gotten gains at the great expense of American citizens and legal immigrants, and making American citizens out of them so that the wing parties can become more powerful.

    So you're either grossly uninformed, or feigning being uninformed.

    Either way, your digression of distortion for the purpose of diverting attention from the true foundational issue at hand .. is meaningless.
    You don't trust Trump? Well, there's only one way to leverage him to do what's economically right for us all: Powerful American Political Alliance. Got courage?! .. and a mere $5.00?

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    People who come here illegally should never be granted amnesty or any other form of amnesty. What should be done is to enforce the laws we got now and enact laws that deter illegal immigration and encourage those who are here illegally to leave.
    Well, according to the 14th Amendment, those who are actually born in the United States are citizens of the United States.

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    Meaningless rhetoric.

    Unless you're grossly uninformed, you know that the amnesty-for-illegals issue is greatly about pardoning the 20 million trespassers, identity forgers and jobs/classrooms/other resource-stealers of their multiple crimes, letting them keep their ill-gotten gains at the great expense of American citizens and legal immigrants, and making American citizens out of them so that the wing parties can become more powerful.
    The 14th Amendment has a huge role in the immigration debate. I'm asking you, are people who come from parents who are illegal immigrants, citizens of the United States?


    Quote Originally Posted by Ontologuy View Post
    So you're either grossly uninformed, or feigning being uninformed.

    Either way, your digression of distortion for the purpose of diverting attention from the true foundational issue at hand .. is meaningless.
    Don't think so. Like I said, the 14th Amendment has a huge role in the immigration debate. Keep up with the ad hominem attacks though!

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    Re: Bipartisan group of senators to unveil framework for immigration overhaul

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Americans making excuses for law breakers but who have no qualms jailing an American citizen for "non-violent" crimes.

    Hypocrites and liars.
    Wait, I don't want to jail American citizens for "non-violent" crimes.

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