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Thread: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    You are not answering my question. Upon what basis do you say the child is his?
    Genetics. If he didn't give up the kid than his rights were never given up and therefore the child should go to him since this fact would void out the adoption.

    He wasn't a father until the courts made him a father. He wasn't even supporting the mother while she was pregnant-- maybe through no fault of his own, but this is still the fact.
    We are clearly running off a different basis on what a father is then.

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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Genetics.
    Pfeh. That is an entirely arbitrary and senseless standard upon which to base paternity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If he didn't give up the kid than his rights were never given up and therefore the child should go to him since this fact would void out the adoption.
    He should never have had rights to the child to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    We are clearly running off a different basis on what a father is then.
    A father is a man that raises children and has sworn an oath to do so. Knocking a woman up doesn't make you a father.

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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Pfeh. That is an entirely arbitrary and senseless standard upon which to base paternity.
    What? Why?

    He should never have had rights to the child to begin with.
    You mean other than it's his kid?

    A father is a man that raises children and has sworn an oath to do so. Knocking a woman up doesn't make you a father.
    Like I sad, a different basis for our argument.

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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What? Why?
    Because siring a child has absolutely nothing to do with raising one. At least the mother spends nine months gestating the child before giving birth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    You mean other than it's his kid?
    You keep saying this, but you still haven't justified it-- how is it his kid when he's had nothing to do with it until the courts stepped in?

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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    So it was his fault that the mother knowingly gave a bogus address. Anyone who has ever been married to a military member knows exactly how to get into contact with them. There are many avenues. All you need is their SSN and be near a military installation. Hell, she knew what installations he had worked at prior to being moved. She could have easily gone thru the chain of command of his previous work location and they would have found him within a day or two and ordered him to get into contact with his wife.

    If that does not work, you could always go to the Red Cross and they have the ability to locate a military member anywhere in the world thru their chain of command.

    This woman was using the child as leverage because she knew he cared about the child. It is obvious by her actions that she was probably not the best wife in the world and I would not blame the guy for leaving her. But he still cared about his child. Does he not have these rights just as a mother does. If she no longer wants to be in a relationship with someone, can she still not have the right to care for her children. Well, that goes both ways!
    I have no idea what you're talking about. Well, yes, I actually do. But it is non-responsive to my post since I think the mother and the adoption agency were lower than low.
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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    Because siring a child has absolutely nothing to do with raising one. At least the mother spends nine months gestating the child before giving birth.
    So?

    You keep saying this, but you still haven't justified it-- how is it his kid when he's had nothing to do with it until the courts stepped in?
    Because I don't need too. You are talking about a view of being a father that comes from society while I'm talking about one that deals in genetics. In some ways we are both right, but I don't consider the argument you are using as a valid one. You simply can't deny that he is a father genetically and that trumps all sorts of socially created understanding of being a father. If the law doesn't respect biological fatherhood than the law is worthless in my opinion. What real use is a law if it doesn't respect the rights of the people? None.

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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    He should never have had rights to the child to begin with.
    You've just set back fathers' rights 100 years.
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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Gehrig View Post
    You are not answering my question. Upon what basis do you say the child is his?

    He wasn't a father until the courts made him a father. He wasn't even supporting the mother while she was pregnant-- maybe through no fault of his own, but this is still the fact.
    I don't believe the court should be allowed to deny the right of any parent to support their children. Nor do I believe an individual should have the right to keep someone else from supporting their child.

    We're not talking about a man who has raised a child as his own for years. We're talking about a man who didn't know that a child existed until another family had raised that child for twenty-two months. They are the rightful parents.
    I believe it should be unlawful to purposely hide the existence of a child from a father, especially if the father is willing to support the child if he did know the child existed.

    Men should not pay child support at all, unless the mother has offered the child to him and he has accepted it. If a couple divorces after they have children, he should absolutely pay child support-- and he should absolutely have full parental rights.
    I don't believe the mother should have the option to not offer the child to the father and I don't believe a father should have the option of not accepting a child as his own. I also agree, a man should pay child support for any children he is responsible for, but I also believe that any woman accepting child support should also grant access to the children if the father wants to be involved.

    Yes, but then would you still support his "right" to demand custody of the child? Or would you instead insist that the "right" belongs to the piece of **** that slept with a married woman?
    If the child is not his, and there is some debate of that, then a paternity test should be administered. If it is found the child is not his, then he has no right to. However, if the father can be found, he should have the right to decide if he wishes to take custody of the child if the mother does not want it. That is, of course, if the father can prove he can support the child. And if he can, he should be granted child support from the mother. A woman is no less responsible for a child than a man when it comes to supporting it.

    HER child, that existed solely within HER womb. She had every right to abort the child.
    I believe the man has the right to demand the birth or abortion of the child as well. If he demands the birth, he would be responsible for providing support for his wife during the entire pregnancy, including financial support. And he would also be responsible for taking custody of the child and providing it with safe and stable living conditions. And the woman would have no obligation to pay child support after the birth of the child. If he demands the abortion of the child and the woman refuses, than the man should not be forced to financially support the child. Just as a woman has the right to give the child up for adoption on the grounds that she can not financially support the child, a man should also have the right to absolve responsibility on financial grounds. The above, would be true equality.



    This law allows women to coerce men into becoming fathers against their will. This is considered wrongful when women are subjected to it, and yet people use the same arguments to justify coercing men into fatherhood without so much as noticing the irony-- "he made that decision when he had sex"; "he should have kept it in his pants then" and so forth, arguments that are rightfully dismissed as misogynist, "slut shaming" garbage when applied to women in the abortion debate.
    I think I could agree with you based on my above views here.



    The mother gestated the child in her womb for nine months. What did the "father" do?
    There simply is not enough information in the article to say what the father had done. Or what the mother refused to let him do to support her pregnancy.



    I'm fine with that.



    Assuming he's been father to the child, yes. And she should not have the right to demand full custody unless it can be proven that he is an unfit parent. He is a father, and he has rights.
    I agree.



    Absolutely not. If he wanted a child, he should have slept with a woman who wanted to give him one.
    Those rights should go both ways. If the woman did not want to have a child, she should not have slept with the father without protection.
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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So?
    ... "so?" One biological parent has devoted actual effort and resources into creating the child. The other just got his rocks off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Because I don't need too. You are talking about a view of being a father that comes from society while I'm talking about one that deals in genetics. In some ways we are both right, but I don't consider the argument you are using as a valid one. You simply can't deny that he is a father genetically and that trumps all sorts of socially created understanding of being a father. If the law doesn't respect biological fatherhood than the law is worthless in my opinion. What real use is a law if it doesn't respect the rights of the people? None.
    No, it absolutely does not trump the act of actually raising the child. Genetics has nothing to do with raising a child. It is absolutely, completely, and totally irrelevant.

    Biological "fatherhood" is a completely arbitrary standard upon which to base any kind of parental rights or responsibilities. One thing simply has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

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    Re: Sgt. Reunited With Baby Given Up for Adoption

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I have no idea what you're talking about. Well, yes, I actually do. But it is non-responsive to my post since I think the mother and the adoption agency were lower than low.
    I would agree with that. I would also go further than just agreeing. I would demand some type of judicial actions against this woman. 2 counts of kidnapping and fraud. 1 count for giving the baby up for adoption without the consent of the father. Another case against the mother because due to the fraud, the baby had to be ripped away from a 2nd parents hands. And fraud, for misrepresenting the information to the adoption agency. If I were the father, I would also take civil action against the adoption agency and sue them for malpractice.
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