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Thread: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    For J-mac and anyone else: tell me about a nation (provide both time and place) that legalized the use of torture by the government that you consider an attractive place to live. Me, I associate it with places like South American, African and Middle Eastern countries under brutal military or religious dictatorships, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China during their worst years et al. I can't recall a just, civilized and free country with legalized torture. Who have I overlooked?

    According to you, you live in one right now.....Are you moving?
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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    And yet a conservative republican and an allegedly liberal democrat president have done nothing to close the Gitmo camp and neither has the world. Your side has lost the initiative and the law due to the war in terror. Best of luck in the future with that "invalidity" argument. Facts on the ground always trump idealism.
    I'm going to remember that last line for when you argue about how some liberal policy is unconstitutional
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'm going to remember that last line for when you argue about how some liberal policy is unconstitutional
    Feel free, but you please pay close attention to what I do say because I wouldn't want you to whip it out prematurely.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    And yet a conservative republican and an allegedly liberal democrat president have done nothing to close the Gitmo camp and neither has the world. Your side has lost the initiative and the law due to the war in terror. Best of luck in the future with that "invalidity" argument. Facts on the ground always trump idealism.
    I'll freely admit that both political power bases condone torture and that my viewpoint has little influence in government. However, one should never confuse that with law. Legislation, treaty and court rulings all agree that torture is illegal. They may not have been enforced, but the rulings still stand.

    The whole "justification" for torture has been based on smoke and mirrors, not actual legal principle. The made up "enemy combatant" concept, the idea that Gitmo isn't U.S. territory, trying to claim waterboarding isn't torture, or kidnapping people and letting other nations do the dirty work. Nobody is actually willing to outright state that they think torture should be legal, they simply do enough obfuscating to avoid any actual punishment. If torture really was legal, we would have repealed the parts of title 18 and withdrawn our 1994 ratification for the convention against torture.

    Its correct to say that one get away with torture nowadays, but it was and is still a crime.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Originally Posted by Hard Truth
    For J-mac and anyone else: tell me about a nation (provide both time and place) that legalized the use of torture by the government that you consider an attractive place to live. Me, I associate it with places like South American, African and Middle Eastern countries under brutal military or religious dictatorships, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China during their worst years et al. I can't recall a just, civilized and free country with legalized torture. Who have I overlooked?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    According to you, you live in one right now.....Are you moving?
    I guess you couldn't name any other countries that torture that have good governments.

    The current president claims to have ended the practice, but still uses renditions to get third parties to do it. I'm working on changing the USA's policies on torture. If things get hopeless and worse I might move.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Originally Posted by Hard Truth
    For J-mac and anyone else: tell me about a nation (provide both time and place) that legalized the use of torture by the government that you consider an attractive place to live. Me, I associate it with places like South American, African and Middle Eastern countries under brutal military or religious dictatorships, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China during their worst years et al. I can't recall a just, civilized and free country with legalized torture. Who have I overlooked?



    I guess you couldn't name any other countries that torture that have good governments.

    The current president claims to have ended the practice, but still uses renditions to get third parties to do it. I'm working on changing the USA's policies on torture. If things get hopeless and worse I might move.

    Kiriakou was working on it too....See what it got him? Listen, I could understand if you had anything on waterboarding by the US that included more than the 3 people that under went the interrogations. But so far all I see from people like you is that they want to blame the US for every ill in the world, tie our hands behind our backs, and lie about what the US has done. I don't get the mindset. Are we perfect? no. Is anyone? no. But, you come in here and cry crocodile tears for KSM, and pretend that you are somehow better than everyone else because you bitch and moan about the US, while hypocritically continuing to build your life right here in the US. At best, IMHO, it is an ingrates existence, and I have no time for the likes of that type of thinking, much less the people that forward it. Good day.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Kiriakou was working on it too....See what it got him? Listen, I could understand if you had anything on waterboarding by the US that included more than the 3 people that under went the interrogations. But so far all I see from people like you is that they want to blame the US for every ill in the world, tie our hands behind our backs, and lie about what the US has done. I don't get the mindset. Are we perfect? no. Is anyone? no. But, you come in here and cry crocodile tears for KSM, and pretend that you are somehow better than everyone else because you bitch and moan about the US, while hypocritically continuing to build your life right here in the US. At best, IMHO, it is an ingrates existence, and I have no time for the likes of that type of thinking, much less the people that forward it. Good day.
    1. f you think only three people were tortured you are seriously misinformed. That is not completely your fault since the mainstream media has done a poor job of bringing out these facts and the conservative media has ignored or misrepresented them. The USA has tortured hundreds of people using renditions to have other nations do it or in facilities like Gitmo, Abu Grahib etc. Many of the people that we tortured and brutally murdered were later found to be innocent.

    2. I have never lied about anything when making a political argument. If you claim that you know about anyone in the anti-torture movement lying you need to provide evidence.

    3. re. "hands tied behind our backs"-The USA went through two World Wars and over two hundred years without needing to use government sanctioned torture. We also encouraged making war criminals accountable after WWII and ratified treaties protecting POWS and prohibiting torture.

    4. This is not about being perfect and weeding out a few bad eggs. For the first time in our history our top leaders authorized the use of torture and indefinite imprisonment without any form of due process and without the protections for prisoners of war that we agreed to by treaty. It is a policy issue that can not be discussed without knowing some the facts, facts which this CIA officer risked his life to reveal so the people of our country can know what our government is doing in our name with our tax dollars. Democracy and secrecy about important policy matters are not compatible.

    I'm still waiting for one of the torture apologists to name a country that officially sanctions torture that is known to be a just, civilized and free nation. As I said before, government authorized torture is done by brutal dictatorships, not free countries.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-28-13 at 02:08 PM.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I don't know what basic human rights are. I do know what jurisdiction is and I reject International Law since I don't get a vote in it.
    Our elected officials make the decision on whether to ratify specific treaties or not. You do have an indirect vote.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I remember when this first hit ABC News, and liberals, just looking for the smoking gun to heap some more smear on George Bush all just loved this man, and defended him strongly, calling him a "whistle blower" instead of what he actually was, someone who aided, and abetted our enemies by his self serving release of information, including names of agents involved.

    This media whore of a man, used his new found fame to latch on to liberal outlets like HuffPo, and MSNBC as some kind of "expert", and these liberal outlets loved every minute of it....Personally I think 30 months is way too light, life would have been closer to appropriate.
    You are hilarious... funny how people on your side had no problems with outing Valerie Plame and no one involved in that was ever arrested nor charged let alone convicted...

    This guy is just another political prisoner in the Corporate States of America. Shut him up and throw him in jail and other whistleblowers will think twice before exposing big corporations and government in wrong doing... another victory for establishment.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I remember when this first hit ABC News, and liberals, just looking for the smoking gun to heap some more smear on George Bush all just loved this man, and defended him strongly, calling him a "whistle blower" instead of what he actually was, someone who aided, and abetted our enemies by his self serving release of information, including names of agents involved.

    This media whore of a man, used his new found fame to latch on to liberal outlets like HuffPo, and MSNBC as some kind of "expert", and these liberal outlets loved every minute of it....Personally I think 30 months is way too light, life would have been closer to appropriate.
    Agreed. When you are entrusted with our nations secrets upon which lives depend, then betraying that trust should result in something more approximating life imprisonment, if not the death penalty. Others will suffer the price for your betrayal.

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