The whole "justification" for torture has been based on smoke and mirrors, not actual legal principle. The made up "enemy combatant" concept, the idea that Gitmo isn't U.S. territory, trying to claim waterboarding isn't torture, or kidnapping people and letting other nations do the dirty work. Nobody is actually willing to outright state that they think torture should be legal, they simply do enough obfuscating to avoid any actual punishment. If torture really was legal, we would have repealed the parts of title 18 and withdrawn our 1994 ratification for the convention against torture.
Its correct to say that one get away with torture nowadays, but it was and is still a crime.
Originally Posted by Hard Truth
For J-mac and anyone else: tell me about a nation (provide both time and place) that legalized the use of torture by the government that you consider an attractive place to live. Me, I associate it with places like South American, African and Middle Eastern countries under brutal military or religious dictatorships, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China during their worst years et al. I can't recall a just, civilized and free country with legalized torture. Who have I overlooked?
The current president claims to have ended the practice, but still uses renditions to get third parties to do it. I'm working on changing the USA's policies on torture. If things get hopeless and worse I might move.
Kiriakou was working on it too....See what it got him? Listen, I could understand if you had anything on waterboarding by the US that included more than the 3 people that under went the interrogations. But so far all I see from people like you is that they want to blame the US for every ill in the world, tie our hands behind our backs, and lie about what the US has done. I don't get the mindset. Are we perfect? no. Is anyone? no. But, you come in here and cry crocodile tears for KSM, and pretend that you are somehow better than everyone else because you bitch and moan about the US, while hypocritically continuing to build your life right here in the US. At best, IMHO, it is an ingrates existence, and I have no time for the likes of that type of thinking, much less the people that forward it. Good day.
2. I have never lied about anything when making a political argument. If you claim that you know about anyone in the anti-torture movement lying you need to provide evidence.
3. re. "hands tied behind our backs"-The USA went through two World Wars and over two hundred years without needing to use government sanctioned torture. We also encouraged making war criminals accountable after WWII and ratified treaties protecting POWS and prohibiting torture.
4. This is not about being perfect and weeding out a few bad eggs. For the first time in our history our top leaders authorized the use of torture and indefinite imprisonment without any form of due process and without the protections for prisoners of war that we agreed to by treaty. It is a policy issue that can not be discussed without knowing some the facts, facts which this CIA officer risked his life to reveal so the people of our country can know what our government is doing in our name with our tax dollars. Democracy and secrecy about important policy matters are not compatible.
I'm still waiting for one of the torture apologists to name a country that officially sanctions torture that is known to be a just, civilized and free nation. As I said before, government authorized torture is done by brutal dictatorships, not free countries.
Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-28-13 at 01:08 PM.
This guy is just another political prisoner in the Corporate States of America. Shut him up and throw him in jail and other whistleblowers will think twice before exposing big corporations and government in wrong doing... another victory for establishment.
“If we must have an enemy at the head of Government, let it be one whom we can oppose, and for whom we are not responsible, who will not involve our party in the disgrace of his foolish and bad measures.”
- Alexander Hamilton. Spiritual father of #NeverTrump