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Thread: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, so long as they live in the USA and not one of those foreign countries. People here are endowed by our creator with certain inalienable rights. Those other guys, not so much.

    God loves us, you know.
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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    Comparing water boarding with gas chambers is a bit of a stretch.
    Its an extremely accurate comparison. We put people on trial for waterboarding after WW2 right alongside those who had operated gas chambers. Torture was not considered acceptable even during the most destructive war this world had ever seen. It was seen as unconscionable by the same people who had justified firebombing Dreseden and dropping two nuclear weapons on Japan.

    I don't know what basic human rights are. I do know what jurisdiction is and I reject International Law since I don't get a vote in it.
    International law has nothing to do with it. Torture is violation of U.S. law and the jurisdiction issue is made up nonsense.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    Its an extremely accurate comparison. We put people on trial for waterboarding after WW2 right alongside those who had operated gas chambers. Torture was not considered acceptable even during the most destructive war this world had ever seen. It was seen as unconscionable by the same people who had justified firebombing Dreseden and dropping two nuclear weapons on Japan.

    International law has nothing to do with it. Torture is violation of U.S. law and the jurisdiction issue is made up nonsense.
    To you it is an accurate comparison, to me it is "made up nonsense".

    Clearly you are right about the latter being illegal since the WH authorized a lot of this stuff and reauthorized it with the new President

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    To you it is an accurate comparison, to me it is "made up nonsense".

    Clearly you are right about the latter being illegal since the WH authorized a lot of this stuff and reauthorized it with the new President
    The WH authorizing something does not make it legal, just ask Richard Nixon.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The WH authorizing something does not make it legal, just ask Richard Nixon.
    And people sitting in a backroom at a summit agreeing to something doesn't make it illegal either.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    End the cruel, immoral practice of torture.
    Not likely. Torture, far from anything we have done in questioning terror suspects, has gone on long before there ever was a United States, and will go on long after.

    Protect the USA's constitition. (remember the concept of cruel and unusual punishment?)
    You'd have to show where that applies to unlawful enemy combatants, not within the United States borders...Short of that this applies to US citizens.

    Demonstrate that government officials are required to obey the law and should be held accountable for their actions.
    Accountable? Don't make me puke! Show me where this administration is accountable for ANYTHING so far...Accountability is only a catch phrase for those who hold irrational hatred in their heart for a political goal.

    Respect and comply with international law, so that other countries will be more likely to follow our example.
    International law? When the rest of the world can attain our standard, then maybe they can lecture us....Til then, not so much.

    Reduce the chances that our military personnel will be tortured if captured by our opponents.
    How quaint that you think that radical Islamists will adhere to the GC....

    Improve the USA's tarnished international image.
    Oh boo freakin' hoo....You don't need to like me to respect me.

    Reduce a source of unreliable intelligence.
    Intel gleaned from the use of wateboarding aided in the kill of OBL....You were saying?

    Stop the spread of torture to other uses, such as other crimes and political uses.
    You fear that do you?

    Reduce the number of sadists in positions of power.
    Your personal characterizations do not count....sorry.

    Save innocent people form torture.
    Yes because it is only the big bad US that is at fault right?

    In m view, if anyone knows of a genuine ticking timebomb situation that requires the use of torture to obtain information, they should do what is necessary. If they use torture they should be put on trial for their crime. If their justification is legit, they will not be convicted.

    The USA survived for over two hundred years without legalized torture. I believe we can continue to survive without it. I will accept the risk of occassional terrorist attack in exchange for living in a free country where citizens have little fear of being tortured, imprisoned without trial, or murdered by their governement. Look at the history of governments that routinely use these techniques and see if they are the type of societies that you would want to live in.
    Oh spare me the naive mindset....In the real world with this outlook that you display, I don't know frankly if I would trust you to adjudicate a petty crime of theft of a pack of chewing gum...You'd probably let the thief go, and charge the store owner. But that aside, cue to 'buy everyone a coke' song, and leave real problems in the world to those of us that recognize the threat, and don't think that the problem can be solved with a slice of chocolate cake, and a tall glass of milk, and a pretty please....

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    To you it is an accurate comparison, to me it is "made up nonsense".
    The Japanese soldiers who were hanged or sent to labor camps after being convicted of torture for the use of waterboarding may have disagreed about my claim being "made up nonsense". Its a warcrime, obviously not as severe as death camps, but still a very serious allegation. Trying to defend against the charge by saying "I was following orders" "it was justified under the circumstances" or "you don't have jurisdiction" didn't fly in 1946 and is equally invalid today.

    Clearly you are right about the latter being illegal since the WH authorized a lot of this stuff and reauthorized it with the new President
    The refusal to uphold the law is precisely the problem.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    For J-mac and anyone else: tell me about a nation (provide both time and place) that legalized the use of torture by the government that you consider an attractive place to live. Me, I associate it with places like South American, African and Middle Eastern countries under brutal military or religious dictatorships, Nazi Germany, Communist Russia and China during their worst years et al. I can't recall a just, civilized and free country with legalized torture. Who have I overlooked?

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    Jerry Falwells' Liberty University has supported him.

    Jerry Falwell (Liberty University) - newsle
    Cool, I'll keep count till we hit the plenty mark.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    The Japanese soldiers who were hanged or sent to labor camps after being convicted of torture for the use of waterboarding may have disagreed about my claim being "made up nonsense". Its a warcrime, obviously not as severe as death camps, but still a very serious allegation. Trying to defend against the charge by saying "I was following orders" "it was justified under the circumstances" or "you don't have jurisdiction" didn't fly in 1946 and is equally invalid today.



    The refusal to uphold the law is precisely the problem.
    And yet a conservative republican and an allegedly liberal democrat president have done nothing to close the Gitmo camp and neither has the world. Your side has lost the initiative and the law due to the war in terror. Best of luck in the future with that "invalidity" argument. Facts on the ground always trump idealism.

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