Page 7 of 17 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 163

Thread: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

  1. #61
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 12:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,274

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    In order of responsibility: people who ordered acts of torture, people who personally committed acts of torture and the people who aided and abetted them. Although obviously politically impossible, it would be legally and ethically justifiable to include both the former and sitting president of the united states. Realistically, I would like there to be an investigation and a few lower level scapegoats thrown in prison and a few high level guys fired. I'm not holding my breath for anything to happen though.


    And what other than possibly make you feel better about the system, would that accomplish? And what do you believe in the big picture it would do?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  2. #62
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So, you don't accept Judges verdicts as valid, if YOU don't agree with them?
    The verdict may be legally valid, that doesn't mean it was correct. Many judicial decisions are overturned on appeal and many convictions are later revealed to be wrong. I would have a bit more confidence in the decision if it came from a jury, but juries also make mistakes.

    By the way, the final charge for the conviction was chosen as part of a plea bargain, which means that charge was not necessarilly the most appropriate one, just the one that the defense and prosecution could accept.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Who appointed you supreme overseer of justice in this country?
    I didn't get the appointment, which is why all I can do is contribute to organizations that support the constitution and oppose torture, write letters to elected officials and post my opinions on internet forums. Did you get the appointment?
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-27-13 at 05:39 PM.

  3. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And what other than possibly make you feel better about the system, would that accomplish? And what do you believe in the big picture it would do?
    End the cruel, immoral practice of torture.
    Protect the USA's constitition. (remember the concept of cruel and unusual punishment?)
    Demonstrate that government officials are required to obey the law and should be held accountable for their actions.
    Respect and comply with international law, so that other countries will be more likely to follow our example.
    Reduce the chances that our military personnel will be tortured if captured by our opponents.
    Improve the USA's tarnished international image.
    Reduce a source of unreliable intelligence.
    Increase respect for government amonst our citizens.
    Stop the spread of torture to other uses, such as other crimes and political uses.
    Reduce the number of sadists in positions of power.
    Save innocent people form torture.

    In m view, if anyone knows of a genuine ticking timebomb situation that requires the use of torture to obtain information, they should do what is necessary. If they use torture they should be put on trial for their crime. If their justification is legit, they will not be convicted.

    The USA survived for over two hundred years without legalized torture. I believe we can continue to survive without it. I will accept the risk of occassional terrorist attack in exchange for living in a free country where citizens have little fear of being tortured, imprisoned without trial, or murdered by their governement. Look at the history of governments that routinely use these techniques and see if they are the type of societies that you would want to live in.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 01-27-13 at 05:45 PM.

  4. #64
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    And what other than possibly make you feel better about the system, would that accomplish? And what do you believe in the big picture it would do?
    1) It would deter people from committing further acts of torture, knowing that you would actually be punished for it.
    2) It would demonstrate that our justice systems actually upholds the law, and that crimes are still crimes, even when perpetrated by the highest levels of our government.
    3) It would check the massive loss of civil and human rights over the last decade, in which the government has decided it can spy upon, torture and kill people with impunity.
    4) Finally, people who think its acceptable to torture others would no longer be in positions of power.

  5. #65
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    I am a NIMBY when it comes to torture. Just as long as it happens offshore, whatever.

  6. #66
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I am a NIMBY when it comes to torture. Just as long as it happens offshore, whatever.
    Torture is OK as long as you don't have to hear the screams?

  7. #67
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Torture is OK as long as you don't have to hear the screams?
    As long as it is not within the jurisdiction of the US Constitution.

  8. #68
    Count Smackula
    rathi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    10-31-15 @ 10:29 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    7,890

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    As long as it is not within the jurisdiction of the US Constitution.
    So I suppose Auschwitz wasn't a problem because it wasn't within the jurisdiction of Germany? That's not an acceptable legal or ethical argument.

  9. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    01-17-16 @ 05:09 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    9,122

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    As long as it is not within the jurisdiction of the US Constitution.
    Basic human rights should be respected everywhere. The international treaties regarding prisoners of war, prohibiting torture and respecting human rights that the USA ratified have the force of law and should apply everywhere. Shipping legal USA residents to outside the USA to circumvent constitional protections should be ruled illegal. All prisoners should be categorized as either POWs or criminals and treated within the established legal constraints for the category. I don't accept the argument that the treatment of certain people should be outside of these two categories and exempt from established legal protections.

  10. #70
    Sage
    Fisher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Last Seen
    12-06-13 @ 02:44 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    17,002

    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by rathi View Post
    So I suppose Auschwitz wasn't a problem because it wasn't within the jurisdiction of Germany? That's not an acceptable legal or ethical argument.
    Comparing water boarding with gas chambers is a bit of a stretch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Basic human rights should be respected everywhere. The international treaties regarding prisoners of war, prohibiting torture and respecting human rights that the USA ratified have the force of law and should apply everywhere. Shipping legal USA residents to outside the USA to circumvent constitional protections should be ruled illegal. All prisoners should be categorized as either POWs or criminals and treated within the established legal constraints for the category. I don't accept the argument that the treatment of certain people should be outside of these two categories and exempt from established legal protections.
    I don't know what basic human rights are. I do know what jurisdiction is and I reject International Law since I don't get a vote in it.

Page 7 of 17 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •