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Thread: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    All fine, except I am sure that investigating changes at your school, is far different than being questioned by a Federal Prosecutor about a passing conversation that happened some 15 months earlier, without notes, and with the two other subjects of that conversation also not being sure who heard what from whom (supposedly)....Not the same at all.



    Nonsense Joe, what is dishonest about this is your trying to take for granted that Libby was prosecuted for something other than what he was...Do you even know what he was prosecuted for? Hint, it's in the article I gave you.



    Yes, testimony that would have cleared Libby. The fact that you are in here trying to tie Libby to the outing of Plame, when we know who outed Plame is not only patently dishonest, it is just plain a lie.
    The FBI can question me. I still know what I was asked to do. So would you. So did Libby.

    Libby was charged with obstructing the investigation. It was not for not remembering minor details.

    And, the testimony would not have cleared Libby. You just want to believe it would. You don't know why it was objected to, or if it really spoke to the actual point f the charge.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The FBI can question me. I still know what I was asked to do. So would you. So did Libby.
    Do you have proof that anyone ordered Libby to out the name of Plame, or anyone? NO, you don't. So you should stop implying that this was the case. It is not honest.

    Libby was charged with obstructing the investigation. It was not for not remembering minor details.
    Yes he was, and if you follow the case you would know that the charge stemmed out of questioning that Fitz underwent with Libby early on about who told him that Plame was the source of providing her husband to go over seas to investigate the yellow cake sales. Russert couldn't remember if he told Libby, or if Libby told him. Likewise with Libby, and because Libby answered one way that time, and 15 months later answered a different way, he was hung with that process charge. But what makes it worse is that Fitz knew all along who revealed the name to Novak, and that was Armitage. This was purely a case of Fitz not wanting to have to explain why he kept an investigation open for 15 months, costing the American people millions, when he knew all along who the person was that 'broke the law' in the scope of the investigation. It was a CYA by Fitz.

    Even worse yet, mouth foaming liberals, like yourself wanted so badly to see a sitting President arrested, and jailed that you will do anything, including misrepresenting the facts, and outright lying about what this was about. Yet, will remain silent, or even defend Obama when the same sorts of things are divulged to the press.

    And, the testimony would not have cleared Libby. You just want to believe it would. You don't know why it was objected to, or if it really spoke to the actual point f the charge.

    That the testamony wouldn't have cleard Libby of Obstruction, is your opinion, and one that is noted to be from a biased, misinforming viewpoint of the case. As for the actual charge, read this......again.

    "Between 2003 and 2005 intense speculation centered on the possibility that Libby may have been the administration official who had "leaked" classified employment information about Valerie E. Wilson (aka "Valerie Plame"), the wife of Iraq war critic Joseph Wilson and a covert CIA agent, to New York Times reporter Judith Miller and other reporters and later tried to hide his having done so.[70][71]
    In August 2005, as revealed in grand jury testimony audiotapes played during the trial and reported in many news accounts, Libby testified that he met with Judith Miller, a reporter with the New York Times, on July 8, 2003, and discussed Plame with her.[72]
    Main article: Plame affair#Judith Miller
    Although Libby signed a "blanket waiver" allowing journalists to discuss their conversations with him pursuant to the CIA leak grand jury investigation, Miller maintained that such a waiver did not serve to allow her to reveal her source to that grand jury; moreover, Miller argued that Libby's general waiver pertaining to all journalists could have been coerced and that she would only testify before that grand jury if given an individual waiver.[73]
    After refusing to testify about her July 2003 meeting with Libby, Judith Miller was jailed on July 7, 2005 for contempt of court. Months later, however, her new attorney, Robert Bennett, told her that she already had possessed a written, voluntary waiver from Libby all along.[74]
    After Miller had served most of her sentence, Libby reiterated that he had indeed given her a "waiver" both "voluntarily and personally." He attached the following letter, which, when released publicly, became the subject of further speculation about Libby's possible motives in sending it:
    As noted above, my lawyer confirmed my waiver to other reporters in just the way he did with your lawyer. Why? Because as I am sure will not be news to you, the public report of every other reporter's testimony makes clear that they did not discuss Ms. Plame's name or identity with me, or knew about her before our call.
    ....
    You went to jail in the summer. It is fall now. You will have stories to cover – Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats, bird flu and the Iranian nuclear program. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will already be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work — and life. Until then, you will remain in my thoughts and prayers.
    With admiration, Scooter Libby.[73][75][76]
    After agreeing to testify, Miller was released on September 29, 2005, appearing before the grand jury the next day, but the charge against her was rescinded only after she testified again on October 12, 2005.[77] For her second grand jury appearance, Miller produced a notebook from a previously undisclosed meeting with Libby on June 23, 2003, two weeks before Wilson's New York Times op-ed was published.[77] In her account published in the Times on October 16, 2005, based on her notes, Miller reports:
    ... in an interview with me on June 23 [2003], Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis Libby, discussed Mr. Wilson's activities and placed blame for intelligence failures on the C.I.A. In later conversations with me, on July 8 and July 12 [2003], Mr. Libby, ... [at the time] Mr. Cheney's top aide, played down the importance of Mr. Wilson's mission and questioned his performance... My notes indicate that well before Mr. Wilson published his critique, Mr. Libby told me that Mr. Wilson's wife may have worked on unconventional weapons at the C.I.A.... My notes do not show that Mr. Libby identified Mr. Wilson's wife by name. Nor do they show that he described Valerie Wilson as a covert agent or "operative"...[77]
    Her notation on her July 8, 2003 meeting with Libby does contain the name "Valerie Flame [sic]", which she added retrospectively. While Miller reveals publicly that she herself had misidentified the last name of Wilson's wife (aka "Valerie Plame") in her own marginal notes on their interview as "Flame" instead of "Plame", in her grand jury (and later trial testimony), she remained uncertain when, how, and why she arrived at that name and did not attribute it to Libby:
    I was not permitted to take notes of what I told the grand jury, and my interview notes on Mr. Libby are sketchy in places. It is also difficult, more than two years later, to parse the meaning and context of phrases, of underlining and of parentheses. On one page of my interview notes, for example, I wrote the name "Valerie Flame." Yet, as I told Mr. Fitzgerald, I simply could not recall where that came from, when I wrote it or why the name was misspelled... I testified that I did not believe the name came from Mr. Libby, in part because the notation does not appear in the same part of my notebook as the interview notes from him.[77]
    A year and a half later, a jury would convict Libby of obstruction of justice and perjury in his grand jury testimony and making false statements to federal investigators about when and how he learned that Plame was a CIA agent.[9][73][78]
    In the 2010 film Fair Game, concerning the Plame affair, the role of Libby was played by David Andrews.[79][80]
    [edit]Indictment and resignation

    On October 28, 2005, as a result of the CIA leak grand jury investigation, Special Counsel Fitzgerald indicted Libby on five counts: one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of making false statements when interviewed by agents of the FBI, and two counts of perjury in his testimony before the grand jury.[7] Pursuant to the grand jury investigation, Libby had told FBI investigators that he first heard of Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment from Cheney, and then later heard it from journalist Tim Russert, and acted as if he did not have that information.[81][82][83] The indictment alleges that statements to federal investigators and the grand jury were intentionally false, in that Libby had numerous conversations about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment, including his conversations with Judith Miller (see above), before speaking to Russert; Russert did not tell Libby about Mrs. Wilson's CIA employment; prior to talking with such reporters, Libby knew with certainty that she was employed by the CIA; and Libby told reporters that she worked for the CIA without making any disclaimer that he was uncertain of that fact.[7][82][83] The false statements counts in the Libby indictment charge that he intentionally made those false statements to the FBI; the perjury counts charge that he intentionally lied to the grand jury in repeating those false statements; and the obstruction of justice count charges that Libby intentionally made those false statements in order to mislead the grand jury, thus impeding Fitzgerald's grand jury investigation of the truth about the leaking of Mrs. Wilson's then-classified, covert CIA identity.[7]"

    Scooter Libby - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    To assert still today, that somehow Cheney, or Libby, or anyone else other than Richard Armitage, the person known to be responsible for leaking Plame's name to reporters, is responsible for the leak is dishonest, and not borne out by the facts of the case. Further it goes to the mindset of those who intentionally do such as so jaded by hatred of the Bush administration in this matter that it is really little more than frothing hate, easily dismissed in real life.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j
    To assert still today, that somehow Cheney, or Libby, or anyone else other than Richard Armitage, the person known to be responsible for .
    You're missing the point. 1. I haven't claimed Cheney was quilty. Nor do I or anyone have to. 2. 2nd What Armitage did or didn't do has nothing to do with whether Cheney, Libby or anyone else also tried to out her. Both of them may have or tried to, or anything else. And 3 you do not know the testimony you think was so special would have been significant. There is a reason it wasn't allowed. Until you KNOW the reason you can't make wild claims about it would have done.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're missing the point.
    We have hashed this many times before, and I doubt neither of us would change our minds about who, what, where, and why. You say I am missing your point, and I assure you I am not, I just think it is drivel. That's not missing it, that is dis-missing it.

    1. I haven't claimed Cheney was quilty. Nor do I or anyone have to.
    Not in so many words, see that is how the dishonest work. Yours is one of implication, and inference....

    2. What Armitage did or didn't do has nothing to do with whether Cheney, Libby or anyone else also tried to out her. Both of them may have or tried to, or anything else.
    Maybe not, but what you have to prove is that the extended investigation from Fitz wasn't some kind of witch hunt fabricated to cover the fact that the real leak was not prosecuted for the leak. And why? Who was pulling the strings of that investigation? And finally, what is the agenda of those who still today are so driven by hatred of Bush, or Cheney that they will continue the sham?

    3 you do not know the testimony you think was so special would have been significant. There is a reason it wasn't allowed.
    Yeah, what was the reason? See, you don't know that either. So your speculation is just as off base as mine, just on the opposite end of the spectrum.

    Until you KNOW the reason you can't make wild claims about it would have done.
    Well, isn't that convenient for you? You get to proclaim yourself the arbiter of what is and what is not acceptable....Sorry teach, not here you don't.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    So, is there someone here who actually sees Cheney as a good man?

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    So, is there someone here who actually sees Cheney as a good man?
    Plenty of "good men" had tough decisions to make throughout history. I would say like all of us he is fallible.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    We have hashed this many times before, and I doubt neither of us would change our minds about who, what, where, and why. You say I am missing your point, and I assure you I am not, I just think it is drivel. That's not missing it, that is dis-missing it.



    Not in so many words, see that is how the dishonest work. Yours is one of implication, and inference....



    Maybe not, but what you have to prove is that the extended investigation from Fitz wasn't some kind of witch hunt fabricated to cover the fact that the real leak was not prosecuted for the leak. And why? Who was pulling the strings of that investigation? And finally, what is the agenda of those who still today are so driven by hatred of Bush, or Cheney that they will continue the sham?



    Yeah, what was the reason? See, you don't know that either. So your speculation is just as off base as mine, just on the opposite end of the spectrum.



    Well, isn't that convenient for you? You get to proclaim yourself the arbiter of what is and what is not acceptable....Sorry teach, not here you don't.
    In not so many words, you're trying to read into my words the claim you want to fight instead of what was actually said. When you do that, as you did above, that is the definition of strawman, which if a form f dishonesty. You're doing that, not me.

    I don't have to rove anything about a witch hunt. Libby was convicted. A jury found him guilty of the charge. That s a fact.

    And no, I don't know the reason. But, you make judgement as if you do know. You want to believe the spin, and don't question it at all.but a judge has a rationale. Seeing every time you don't your way as being bised against is a form of removing responsibility. You have to consider the possibility there may have actually been a reason. Maybe even a good reason.

    And quit with the abstract or nonsense. If you can't show the flaw in what I'm saying, just concede the point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    In not so many words, you're trying to read into my words the claim you want to fight instead of what was actually said. When you do that, as you did above, that is the definition of strawman, which if a form f dishonesty. You're doing that, not me.
    Ha! Typical...Your attempt at table turning may work on gullible 18 to 20 somethings in class, but not on me....Nice try.

    I don't have to rove anything about a witch hunt. Libby was convicted. A jury found him guilty of the charge. That s a fact.
    Yep, every good boondoggle in DC is hung on a scapegoat of some sort...You know how many people in DC are wealthy for doing very little to nothing? Hint, it's a trick question, all of them....HA!

    And no, I don't know the reason....
    Ok, stop right there, the rest is BS.

    And quit with the abstract or nonsense. If you can't show the flaw in what I'm saying, just concede the point.
    I don't need to show your flaws, you do a fine job all on your own...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ha! Typical...Your attempt at table turning may work on gullible 18 to 20 somethings in class, but not on me....Nice try.



    Yep, every good boondoggle in DC is hung on a scapegoat of some sort...You know how many people in DC are wealthy for doing very little to nothing? Hint, it's a trick question, all of them....HA!



    Ok, stop right there, the rest is BS.

    And the jury did convict. A fact. No bs.

    I don't need to show your flaws, you do a fine job all on your own...
    J, your are in fact trying o ague what I didn't claim. You can't change that.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Former CIA officer John Kiriakou is sentenced to 30 months in prison for leaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    J, your are in fact trying o ague what I didn't claim. You can't change that.


    Nah...It's clear, now you are devolving into foolishness, like so many times before when your argument falls through. So, have fun with that.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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